Posted on 03/14/2003 5:35:36 PM PST by Pitchfork
In the March 11 New York Times, Neil MacFarquhar notes in passing, "Most Iraqi households own at least one gun." This comes as a shock to those of us who've been hearing for years from the gun lobby that widespread firearms ownership is necessary to prevent the United States from becoming a police state. Here, via the National Rifle Association's Web site, is Bill Pryor, attorney general of Alabama, decrying the "war on guns": "In a republic that promotes a free society, as opposed to a police state, one of the basic organizing principles is that individuals have a right of self-defense and a right to acquire the means for that defense." The basic Jeffersonian idea is that you never know when you'll need to organize a militia against your government. In director John Milius' camp Cold War classic Red Dawn, Russians and Nicaraguan commies take over the United States in part by throwing gun owners in jail. In one memorable scene, the camera pans from a bumper sticker that says "You'll Take My Gun Away When You Pry It From My Cold, Dead Fingers" to a Russian soldier prying a gun from the car owner's you get the idea.
The obvious question raised by MacFarquhar's piece is how Iraq got to be, and remains, one of the world's most repressive police states when just about everyone is packing heat. Chatterbox invites gun advocates (and Iraq experts) to e-mail (to chatterbox@slate.com) plausible reasons. The best of these will be examined in a follow-up item.
.....Or not, it's a free republic.
accidental deaths
ease of access
gun show loophole
suspected criminals
Reasonable limits
ethnic violence
mere availablity may lead to use.
Thanks for the reply, but all you've done is post the standard gun-grabber boilerplate.
I think you're just playing games and wasting everyone's time.
cite, please.
Washi
I agree with your earlier post. You do have a knack for being offensive.
Do it, man! Do it Monday if possible. If not, make it soon! Your precious little one WILL be taught lies in public school, count on it! This thread is proof of that.
HOMESCHOOL! Teach your kids yourself that this is a free country, especially if you want it to stay that way for them. I can think of nothing more important and few things of equal importance.
And maybe, just maybe...leftist pukes who want aggressive enforcement of unconstitutional laws by ABC agency jack booted thugs to put centuries old technology back in the bottle by whatever means necessary will start to become only a bad memory. Might even invoke a nostalgic chuckle someday.
It was beautiful today in Colorado. My eight year old boy and I went shooting today. Since safety was taught as well as skills it will count towards school hours. History of warfare was taught concurrently, as he has a keen interest for this subject. Can you imagine? He was technically in school with a firearm and no one was injured, killed, threatened, arrested, all was good, nothing was bad and it was FANTASTIC! Time of more quality than this does not exist.
Now then, is hardware the problem? Or could it be the system?
So we have established that Mr. "American Government Teacher" has a history book or two around. Good.
Now, you have stated that seeking the original intent of the framers of the constitution is useless, it's all a matter of interpretation, blablablah. Nothing to back this up, just your contention.
I listed at least ten very clear and unambiguous quotes by our founding fathers stating in clear language their intent behind the adoption of the 2 amd., and I can post twenty or thirty more just as easily.
So far you have, although being asked repeatedly, posted zero, zip, nada, goose egg, none, nothing refuting the clear language of the founders in support of the RKBA.
Surely, Mr. "American Government Teacher", you can put together another nice list like your list of obscure British skirmishes, of other important Americans from the time of the adoption of the constitution, refuting what our founding fathers said about the RKBA?
Even ONE?
Hours have gone by, still you run away from my challenge like a yellow coward.
Come on Mr. Am Govt teacher, PUT UP, OR SHUT UP.
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(Sound of crickets.)
4. I am a moron who hasn't read the constitution.
I teach american government! The constitution of course only has power when it is interpreted and implemented by the Court. The court doesn't appear to share the NRA's veiw on the second ammendment at this time. So to claim I am in error is to only reveal an alarming lack of attention on your part.5. Its not the federal government's job to regulate guns.
The federal governments job is to do what we as citizens ask it to do within the boundaries of the Consitution. Given the fact that no federal firearms law has ever been overturned by the Court, it would appear the FG has yet to exceed its constitutional mandate in this area.
And, the lesson I've learned:
1. Its easy to rile up you yahoos by posting an anti-gun article. Sadly while your barrage of responses may be intense, the aren't very intelligent. Try harder!
The question is not if, but how soon you'll be out of a job.
Domestic Disarmament offers an entirely new vantage point from which to view the firearms issue--from the communitarian context, in which the individual's responsibilities to society are seen as more important than the unlimited exercise of rights. --Maryland Law Review
The authors quickly gloss over this major detail. The first responsibility for each citizen is to not initiate harm/force, threat of harm/force or fraud against another person or their property. That must be the first and paramount priority. Since every politician, bureaucrat and government employee is first a citizen, they have the same paramount priority.
A person that is in possession of a gun or any object does not equate to the person having initiated harm/force against another person. On the other hand, threatening to throw a person in jail because they are in possession of a gun is a threat of force against a person that is minding their own business.
It's not about rights nearly as much as it is about who is initiating force, threat of force and fraud against people that are minding their own business.
It's been said often that a sign of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. I'd say that doing the same thing and expecting a different result is a sure sign of incompetence and irrationality.
Politicians and bureaucrats aren't insane. They know exactly what they are doing. And a main stream news media is glad to facilitate the politicians and bureaucrats, lies and deceptions. That is also true for the authors that wrote the above article for the Maryland Law Review
Why do you think congress is so often called lawmakers? If there aren't enough problems for politicians and bureaucrats to proclaim they're trying to solve they create "boogie man" problems -- problems that don't exist -- and then proclaim to be working on solving those problems.
Now, as far as job security goes that isn't irrational or necessarily incompetent. Least wise not on a purely self-serving basis. But their job security does not take precedence over what they are paid to do.
What is the primary job/duty of government? To protect people and their property from the initiation of force, fraud and threat of force -- to protect people and their property from being harmed by others.
Creating "boogie man" problems and then proclaiming to work on solving those problem for the purpose of job security is fraud. On the scale that politicians in Washington do it it is massive fraud. A third to half of federal government expenditures are spent on frauds created by politicians and bureaucrats in Washington.
That's to be expected when the method politicians and bureaucrats use to fund government is threat of force in the first place. So right off the bat politicians and bureaucrats are in bed with creating injustice.
Income taxes are collected by strong arm tactics: "if you don't pay your taxes you'll be fined and go to jail". Conversely, a consumption tax such as the National Retail Sales Tax (NRST) is a voluntary tax. Wherein if you don't want to pay the tax don't buy the item.
Compared to the massive fraud implemented by politicians and bureaucrats, fraud in the business community barley registers on the "Richter" scale.
Simply put, for the past 150 years government objective is to expand government jobs, cash-flow and control. In that sense it is not unlike any business. But government is not a business and the people never intended for the government to have the growth and control dynamics of a business. The only, I repeat, the only way the government could expand its cash flow, size and control to a hundred times the power and size of the largest fortune 50 companies was by initiating force. The initiation of force is enacted as laws by politicians and bureaucrats. Their minions do the dirty work of initiating the physical force.
Who are the wealth providers and who are the parasites? Who offers competitive products and services in a free market? Who provides jobs, necessities and luxuries to sustain and enhance human life? Who forces people to buy their services or else go to jail? Who initiates force, threat of force and fraud?
Politicians and bureaucrats are far more destructive and harmful to innocent people than all petty criminals combined. And for sure, business and science have done more to benefit people than politicians and bureaucrats. Those two -- government and business-science -- for the most part at this point in time are opposing forces.
The masses are increasingly understanding the frauds impinged on them by politicians and bureaucrats. And that "wake-up" awareness is only going to escalate. As is their awareness and understanding that business and science provides them with massive benefits. Those two effects are caused by people waking up the power of their own rational conscious faculties as the only real and valid authority -- sounding the death knell of the status quo.
Politicians and bureaucrats as well as main stream media reporters and journalists and academics are becoming increasingly aware of that. For sure, it will be interesting to see which ones hang on fighting tooth and nail to the very end despite the unavoidable demise of the status quo -- a lesson in futility. ...And who will flip to rational competence and redeem themselves honorably with integrity as they hold themselves accountable for their past harms inflicted on what was in the past an unsuspecting people.
That is/will occur faster than most people can imagine. To understand why is to understand how the illusions foisted on people of whom holds real power and honor has been hidden from the masses by manipulating mysticism in the minds of the masses. And how thin the veil has been stretched. It has been stretched tissue thin and will fall apart/collapse like a water-logged tissue. Think of how quickly Nicolae Ceausescu was brought down when "X" number of people saw though the illusion of power.
Here's a better idea. Buy a gun, learn how to use it and start taking responsibility for defending your life, property and family. If that doesn't suit you, then at least take responsibility for the people you hire to protect you: join a police watchdog group or do some ride-alongs. Support your local police in some way. Resist efforts to federalize police functions as we have given ample evidence of how that leads to tyranny.
If suggestions don't appeal to you, then do some more reading. I was once more or less brainwashed, I even contributed to HCI. In my case I had never heard any arguments to the contrary. I still read both sides of the issue and appreciated your arguments minus the slurs and gun grabber talking points.
Of those with more than 15 years of service, 87% replied "disagree" or "strongly disagree." Responses by members of the Special Forces Underground were unprintable; basically, there will not be many officers who give that order more than once.
NCO's are the backbone of the military in more ways than one. Especially Staff/Senior NCO's. I stand by my original statement.
I DO love Free Republic!
Because the NY Times says something does not make it so.
Good question! Saddam's "arming" of the population seems like a PR ploy, to scare us from fighting a war in the city from street to street.
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