A.B. Yehoshua: Diaspora Judaism isn't the real thing

The Jerusalem Post ^ | 13 March 2003 | THE JERUSALEM POST INTERNET STAFF

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Mar. 13, 2003
A.B. Yehoshua: Diaspora Judaism isn't the real thing
By THE JERUSALEM POST INTERNET STAFF

Israeli novelist A.B. Yehoshua said today that living in exile is a "neurotic choice" made by the vast majority of Jews over the centuries, even during eras when moving to the Land of Israel was an option.

The exile experience has become a such an "integral condition of Jewish identity," that it isn't likely to disappear, Yehoshua, a prominent essayist and scholar.

But he clearly doesn't recommend it.

"Diaspora Judaism is masturbation," Yehoshua told editors at The Jerusalem Post. "Here," meaning, in Israel, he said, "it is the real thing."

Jews have lived overwhelmingly in the Diaspora purely by choice, Yehoshua says. The Jews were never banished by the Romans, after the destruction of the Second Temple, Yehoshua says. Most of them left of their own free will, and for centuries later they never returned despite many an impetus to do so, he maintains.

Whether in Israel or the Diaspora, Yehoshua feels that Jews have to draw a distinction between their religion and nationality.

He calls this "the next great challenge of the Zionist revolution."

"I can presage religion becoming independent of national affinity," Yehoshua says. In fact, the pro-secular Shinui Party's tremendous election victory in January, when it won 15 seats in the Knesset, is a step in the right direction, he maintains.

Yehoshua regards Shinui's triumph as one of a number of emerging signs of Jews returning to what he calls a model of First Temple era identity, when it was widely accepted for Jews to be either secular or religious, a priniciple that disappeared later and came to be accepted again about 150 years ago.

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A link to the full interview (audio) is available on the Jerusalem Post website at the bottom of the article.

I was raised mainly in the U.S., but I came to believe, as a Jew and a Zionist, that I needed to go back to Israel to live, that it was where I belonged. I don't agree with a lot of what Yehoshua says, but I agree with the premised that staying in exile is not the way to build a strong Jewish nation.

[Ditto]

I don't agree with a lot of what Yehoshua says, but I agree with the premised that staying in exile is not the way to build a strong Jewish nation.

Just curious in asking this question. But why is it important to have a Jewish nation? Isn't it more important to be a good Jew regardless of what nation you happen to live in?

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But why is it important to have a Jewish nation?

Any time we have not had a nation we have, in one country after another, we have been persecuted, thrown out, or worse. Pogroms, Jewish ghettos, the Inquisition, various periods of Islamic radicalism, the expulsion of the Jews from England, the Crusades, up to the 20th centurey wholesale genocide of the Holocaust and smaller scale genocide committed against the Felashmura in Ethiopia: all of these teach us that the only way the Jewish people can safely be Jewish and free is in a strong Jewish state.

The recent rise of anti-Semetism in Europe and to a lesser extent in North America only reinforces my view that Israel is essential to the survival of the Jewish people.

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I wonder if Yirmeyahu would agree with Yehoshua that it was just peachy to be a secular Jew during the First Temple period.

[Ditto]

Jews have done very well in the US. Yes, there have been 'incidents' and social discrimination just as their have been with other ethnic minorities, but in any given month in Israel there are more Jews killed simply for being Jewish than have ever been harmed in any way for being Jewish in all of our history. I think the same can be said for Canada, the UK, and Australia over the last 100 years or so.

BTW. I support Israel fully. They are an oasis of sanity and liberty in the middle of a intellectual and human rights wasteland. I just can't understand the linking of religious identify and nationhood among people who are Western in all their other philosophy.

Maybe you can help me understand this.

[aimhigh]

I just can't understand the linking of religious identify and nationhood among people who are Western in all their other philosophy.To be a religious Jew requires recognition from the Torah that God gave the Land to the Jews. There are an astonishing number of prophecies related to Jews returning to the promised land. The proper response to God isn't, "I don't want your gift".

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Yes, Jews have done well in America recently. It isn't all that long ago that there was institutionalized discrimination and anti-Semetism though, from quotas limiting the number of Jews in certain prominent universities to "restricted" civic and social organizations. However, there has been no widespread persecution of Jews in the U.S. or Canada.

Australia is another matter. They simply keep Jews out. If you aren't British and you are Jewish you cannot immigrate. Look into Australia's immigration laws and policies. You may be surprised.

Turning back to the U.S.: There has always been a minority of Americans who are virulently anti-Semetic. Today that is a small minority, thankfully. Sometimes they even come into positions where they have a forum in the media and are respected in some circles. There is a somewhat larger minority who have picked up anti-Semetic attitudes unconsciously through their upbringing, social circle, and education. They have no animus against the Jewish people that they are aware of, but rather accept many negative stereotypes as fact.

Now, in today's free, tolerant, prosperous America Jews do well. I agree. Most American Jews even have American, not Jew, as their primary identity. The Jewish community in the U.S. is very assimilated, largely because America is very accepting.

Imagine two changes for me:

One, Americans continue to trade away civil liberties for the illusion of security. I normally feel the left are the ones who want to trade individual rights for communal rights, but some of John Ashcroft's ideas and proposals are downright frightening. Still, let's assume the trend continues. Let's also assume that, as part of that, the right of privacy continues to erode and Americans are increasingly filed, catalogued, and databased.

Now, imagine a serious economic downturn, perhaps a full blown depression, coupled with a foreign threat to the United States. It is easy to see a populist demagogue coming to power and further stripping Americans of their rights "for the duration". So much for democracy. Now, imagine that this person has views towards Israel and the Jews similar to those expressed by Cynthia McKinney or Patrick Buchanan or James Moran or Al Sharpton. You see where I am going with this, right?

Jews get blamed for all that is wrong with this future America, and the government itself incites the anti-Semetism. Far fetched? I really hope so, but I could see it happening.

Turn back the clock to 1925. What country in the world are Jews the most successful in? The most assimilated in? The most accepted in?


I think American culture is very different from German culture 80 years ago. I also have a great deal of belief in the basic decency and morality of the American people. I sincerely hope the United States continues to be the greatest country in the world, and a shining example of freedom, tolerance, pluralism, and democracry. I would like to believe that will never change. I read posts by a vocal minority on this board and I really wonder sometimes.

Israel, for me, is an insurance policy. It is still the only place in the world being a Jew isn't an issue.

[Nachum]

There are numerous Torah giants who disagree with this opinion. Until Moshiach comes, the golus (exile) is upon the entire Jewish nation. This includes those that live on the holy soil of Isreal.

Also, to blame Jews who for generations lived in foriegn lands because they had no choice is at the very least insensitive. It takes more than a mere castigation of Jews in the diaspora to bring Moshiach. Moving to the holy land will not bring Moshiach either.

[Ditto]

Now, imagine a serious economic downturn, perhaps a full blown depression, coupled with a foreign threat to the United States. It is easy to see a populist demagogue coming to power and further stripping Americans of their rights "for the duration". So much for democracy. Now, imagine that this person has views towards Israel and the Jews similar to those expressed by Cynthia McKinney or Patrick Buchanan or James Moran or Al Sharpton. You see where I am going with this, right? ............... Israel, for me, is an insurance policy. It is still the only place in the world being a Jew isn't an issue. "

I suppose your scenario is a theoretical possibility, but I'd say it is many times more likely that some crazy Arab will drop enough nukes on Israel to kill all 6 million Jews there.

Truthfully, if the survival of the Jewish people is the issue, you have surely picked a bad hunk of real estate for a homeland. You couldn't have selected a more dangerous place to be.

Jews get blamed for all that is wrong with this future America, and the government itself incites the anti-Semetism. Far fetched? I really hope so, but I could see it happening.

Depends on who you talk to. Some folks blame us mean old Conservative Republicans for all the problems.

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I suppose your scenario is a theoretical possibility, but I'd say it is many times more likely that some crazy Arab will drop enough nukes on Israel to kill all 6 million Jews there.

If Israel ever ceases to be vigilant or strong, you could be right. I believe Israel will continue to defend itself vigorously and successfully.

Truthfully, if the survival of the Jewish people is the issue, you have surely picked a bad hunk of real estate for a homeland. You couldn't have selected a more dangerous place to be.

If you believe in the scriptures at all, we didn't pick it. Besides, it is our homeland and has been for more than three millennia. You can't undo that much history.

Depends on who you talk to. Some folks blame us mean old Conservative Republicans for all the problems.

Yep, but... scapegoating ethnic and religious minorities seesm to be part of human nature. It has a very long history.

Oh, I'm sorry my previous post was so long. I wanted to make the idea clear and to do it in brief language could have come off as anti-American.

[Ditto]

If you believe in the scriptures at all, we didn't pick it.

I tend not to take scriptures literally. I respect them, but I would not follow them into doing something stupid.

Besides, it is our homeland and has been for more than three millennia. You can't undo that much history.

I'm an American. We are all about undoing history. That's what we were founded for, and it is why Jews did well here from the beginning. Did you ever read Washington's letter to the Torah congregation in Newport?

BTW. Again out of curiosity. How many of your fellow citizens agree with your literal interpertation of the scriptures? I understand that not even a majority do. Is that correct?

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First, this is a good discussion and an interesting debate.

I tend not to take scriptures literally. I respect them, but I would not follow them into doing something stupid.

You lack context here. Some folks have read my posts for a while and know where I am coming from. I am not Orthodox, and I do not take the scriptures literally, though many on this board do. My line about it being our homeland for three thousand years or more is really the salient line in terms of my own beliefs and Zionist feelings.

To answer your question: 70% of Israelis are secular, so I would most of that number do not take scripture literally. The vast majority of Israeli Jews are Zionists, however.

[Ditto]

To answer your question: 70% of Israelis are secular, so I would most of that number do not take scripture literally. The vast majority of Israeli Jews are Zionists, however.

That is what my impression was. So it seems that for the majority, it is not a religious idea, but a political idea based on a shared identity. I don't think you can even call the Jews of Israel a common ethnicity since they came from both Eastern and Western europe, North Africa and throughout the mideast. Over the centuries, especially among the European and American Jews, the "semite" genes have been very watered down and the cultures all evolved differently.

Again, these are my impressions and I also am enjoying this "debate." Zionism may or may not have been a good idea. But it seems that they picked the wrong place to work on their experiment. At the end of the 19th Century when Zionism started, the US had open borders if you wanted some desert wasteland that reminded you of the old days to turn in to lush farmland, (which they did) you could have had the damn whole state of Arizona if you wanted and other then the Apachies, you wouldn't have had too much in the way of problems. The Apachies had to have been more attractive than the Ottomans. ;~))

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But why is it important to have a Jewish nation? Isn't it more important to be a good Jew regardless of what nation you happen to live in?

This is the same approach as those Muslims who try to spiritualize the Koran's commands of what to do with the Jews, Christians, and other infidels. If you have to ask that first question, you haven't read and understood the OT.

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When you, your parents, your grandparents, your great grandparents, and their parents for 1,868 years prayed "Leshana ha'ba'a b'Yerushaliyim" (Next year in Jerusalem) there really is no question about where a Jewish state belongs and should be. Our cultural center remained in Jerusalem and Israel. There were always Jews there as well. Did you know that the majority of the population of Jerusalem in 1854 was Jewish?

Trust me, no place else would do. Don't get me wrong. I love America. There is an emotional attachment to Israel that I do not have to America, even though I was born in New York. Can you understand that?

I'm sure my upbringing had something to do with it: an Israeli father and an ardent Zionist for a mother. Of course, it was my mother who decided we had to come back to the States. She didn't want her children to go to war. I understand how she felt, but I really wish she hadn't pressed the issue.

[Ditto]

When you, your parents, your grandparents, your great grandparents, and their parents for 1,868 years prayed "Leshana ha'ba'a b'Yerushaliyim" (Next year in Jerusalem) there really is no question about where a Jewish state belongs and should be.

Ok. That I can see. Maybe someday it can be more peaceful, I just don't have much hope of ever seeing that day in my lifetime. It's a shame too. The Arabs and the Jews really do need each other.