Congressional hearing draws protests, pleas in Flagstaff

The Daily Courier (Prescott Newspapers) ^ | Mar. 9, 2003 | JOANNA DODDER

[madfly]

FLAGSTAFF – A familiar Washington, D.C., scene made its way to Flagstaff Friday: People carrying signs protesting Republican federal forest proposals while standing outside a congressional hearing.

But alongside them was a more unusual sight: even more people carrying signs to show support for those proposals.

Mark Rey, undersecretary for Natural Resources and Environment for the U.S. Department of Agriculture, makes a point.



They were people from the mountains of Arizona who have seen firsthand the devastation of ponderosa pine forests from catastrophic wildfire – residents of the White Mountains, where the 467,000-acre Rodeo-Chediski Fire ran rampant this past summer.

They said they are rising up against environmental groups that are trying to stop efforts to thin out forests that are dangerously overgrown after decades of wildfire suppression.

When overstocked forests burn today, the resulting fires are so hot they kill too many trees and cause so much damage to some soils that experts say it could take the ground thousands of years to recover.

“Join the Sierra Club and make a real ash of yourself,” read the T-shirts that Jason Ellis of Snowflake was selling outside the hearing.

The Arizona residents said they are especially angry that one environmental group, the Forest Conservation Council, is appealing the Forest Service’s plan to salvage trees that the Rodeo-Chediski Fire burned near homes, roads and utility lines.

Inside the hearing room, Agriculture Undersecretary Mark Rey told the House Subcommittee on Forests and Forests Health that the court delay could effectively kill the logging operation because the trees no longer will be salvageable.

Prescott-area residents Brad Veek and Bob Hennkens brought along petitions that oppose the lawsuit.

The two opinions outside the Flagstaff City Hall clashed when one protester told a White Mountain resident that he shouldn’t be living in the forest anyway.

“Then they shouldn’t worry about getting robbed or raped in the city,” John Halliwill countered.

Inside at the congressional field hearing, forest health scientists, federal administrators and an environmental leader testified that it’s not enough to thin out trees and overgrown brush near homes alone, because that wouldn’t help the animals that depend on healthy forests.

The scientists advocated starting on landscape-scale logging, crushing and burning projects immediately.

Greenpeace co-founder Patrick Moore cited two primary causes of the Western forest conditions: that Eastern federal politicians control lands in the West, and “many powerful environmental groups are basically anti-forestry.

“The anti-forestry activists are telling us that the way to save forests is to let them burn to the ground,” Moore said.

Bush administration officials said that right now, the federal government is thinning an average of 2.2 million acres each year.

But at least 190 million acres of federal forestlands are at risk of catastrophic wildfire because they are so dense, Department of Interior Undersecretary Rebecca Watson said.

While some congressmen and panelists wondered how the work could ever catch up, Rey said it could be done with 20 years of aggressive action.

“It took us 100 years to get into this situation, and it’s going to take more than a couple years to get out,” Rey said.

However, right now “the procedures are too cumbersome,” he said.

No matter what the federal government does to try to help restore the forests, it gets sued, said Congressman Greg Walden of Oregon.

“This system is out of control right now,” he said.
Congressmen Scott McInnis of Colorado and J.D. Hayworth of Arizona agreed.

“Who is the extremist in this instance when you ignore forest health and the safety of the population?”

Hayworth said. “There is no reasoning with those who will not reason.”

Local government officials whose region was affected by Arizona’s largest wildfire, Show Low Mayor Gene Kelley and White Mountain Apache Chair Dallas Massey, also got a chance to testify before the subcommittee.

“Stop forest management by lawsuit,” Kelley asked the congressional members.

“Planning for forest health must also recognize that people are part of this forest,” Massey said. “Loosen up some of those environmental laws and we can manage the forests the right way.”

The subcommittee promised to help.
“Congress has an obligation to help,” agreed House Resources Committee Chair Richard Pombo.

“The time to act is now,” Arizona Congressman John Shadegg said.

“We can work together to find a holistic approach,” said Congressman Rick Renzi, a member of the subcommittee whose district includes Flagstaff and much of Arizona.

Wally Covington, director of the Ecological Restoration Institute at Northern Arizona University, painted a dire picture of what could happen without quick action.

He presented a map showing a fire spreading from Oak Creek Canyon to Flagstaff, Williams, three wilderness areas and three national monuments.

“This is absolutely going to happen unless we do something about it, and we don’t have much time,” Covington warned.

Pombo said after the hearing that he wasn’t surprised that so many people were telling him the same thing indoors and outdoors, because he’s seeing it all across the West.

[madfly]

Jake Bacon/Arizona Daily Sun So many people showed up for a field hearing of the House Resources Subcommittee on Forests and Forest Health in City Hall that the fire marshall closed the building Friday morning. Witnesses testified about the state of forests and efforts to mitigate fire dangers.

[madfly]

Forest hearing ping!

[Carry_Okie]

I have come across some VERY interesting data that neither left nor right understand for why the forests have grown so thick with young trees. I'll probably be publishing an article on the topic soon.

[Sacajaweau]

What took the "good" people so long to be heard with the same loud voice as the people of those organizations who "own the press".

[big'ol_freeper]

Flagstaff bump

[Libertarianize the GOP]

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list

[madfly]

Great. Exciting news and good timing!

[xzins]

The two opinions outside the Flagstaff City Hall clashed when one protester told a White Mountain resident that he shouldn’t be living in the forest anyway. “Then they shouldn’t worry about getting robbed or raped in the city,” John Halliwill countered.

Excellent answer.

If these folks can't take reasonable preparation to protect themselves, then city-dwellers should not have the option to hire police and firefighters.

It makes EXACTLY as much sense.

[farmfriend]

Putting this on the email network. When did you get so good at posting. I can't do pictures. Don't it make my brown eyes green.

[madfly]

I know this is a bit premature, but have you had any interesting hits on your website as a result of Shadegg handing out copies of your book? . . . hoping :)

[Mister Baredog]

I have come across some VERY interesting data that neither left nor right understand for why the forests have grown so thick with young trees. I'll probably be publishing an article on the topic soon.

Some reason beyond fire suppression? That sounds interesting

[Carry_Okie]

Some reason beyond fire suppression? That sounds interesting

Yes, it has absolutely nothing to do with fire suppression.

[madfly]

Oh, I learn a bit here and there. I usually have to work at getting the pics in articles to show up and appear in the right place. I also read all the threads on posting here for tips. This article had the URL in the .jpg code so it was just auto-pilot for me here, lol.

One thing that thrills be so much about these hearings is the fact that the evil Southwest Center for Biodiversity might be losing their clout and hopefully their funds!!! I would love to see a animated flash cartoon of Kermit singing "It's so sleazy being green!" heheheh

[sit-rep]

flag me when you do...

[TLBSHOW]

did you see this story yet?


The net effect of subsequent change in burning patterns, the grazing of domestic animals and the harvesting of timber allowed the growth of thick forests of young trees together with an increasing shrub understorey. This regeneration of forests following European settlement was described by many pioneers such as A.W. Howitt (1890, pp109-110).

The valley of the Snowy River, when the early settlers came down from Maneroo to occupy it ... was very open and free from forests ...

... After some years of occupation, whole tracks of country became covered with forests of young saplings ... and at present times these have so much increased, and grown so much, that it is difficult to ride over parts which one can see by the few scattered old giants were at one time open grassy country.

http://www.nafi.com.au/faq/index.php3?fact=16

[madfly]

bump

[meyer]

New-data bump!

And, good job, Arizona.

[madfly]

I missed this one!

Greg Bryan/Arizona Daily Sun Signs both in support and protest of President Bush's Healthy Forest Initiative line a wall as citizens gather in an overflow area to watch the House Resources Subcommittee on Forests and Forest Health's first field hearing at City Hall Friday.

[Abundy]

Greenpeace co-founder Patrick Moore cited two primary causes of the Western forest conditions: that Eastern federal politicians control lands in the West, and “many powerful environmental groups are basically anti-forestry.

Holy Smoke!!!

Common sense from GreenPeace?

The world truly stands on the brink of the end of time...

[EBUCK]

Holly logic batman! Listen to those people, some of them sworn enemies!! Change is a comin, thanks Mad!

CO---Can I have a hint???