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To: Chi-townChief
Just got back from Ash Wednesday services. Here was the second reading, from Matthew 6:1-6,16-21:

"[Jesus said,] Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them; for then you have no reward from your Father in heaven."

...

"And whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, so that they may be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you."
7 posted on 03/05/2003 7:39:50 PM PST by RonF
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To: RonF
"Here was the second reading, from Matthew 6:1-6,16-21: "

That was the verses I was thinking of when I read this article. It's nice to see someone else on this board who gets it.

9 posted on 03/05/2003 7:45:53 PM PST by Kerberos
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To: RonF
Not sure why you wanted a resposne from me. Those scriptures do not the whole story make. Here's what I say. If one "stand[s] and pray[s] in the synagogues and at the street corners, so that they may be seen by others" then they are not true to themselves or the Lord. So long as my prayer is "genuine" and not just for show then what does it matter where it takes place? Why should I be forced to hide. There's an old song from Sunday School perhaps you're familiar with. It goes something like this, "this little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine... won't hide it under a bush oh no! I'm gonna let it shine, let it shine".
15 posted on 03/05/2003 8:01:53 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: RonF
Better reread that passage, Ron - you may be the hypocrite who is being referred to.
24 posted on 03/06/2003 2:55:53 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: RonF
Just got back from Ash Wednesday services. Here was the second reading, from Matthew 6:1-6,16-21:

While I do appreciate what you are saying and I have a lot of reservation about some public prayer you must have prayed with the priest today when prayers for others were uttered. There are many places in church services where we all pray out loud. Does this violate the verses in Matthews Gospel? Certainly not! This particular verse is talking about the Pharisees who loved to be the ones seen as most important. They got to utter the Jewsih prayers at the exclusion of others and they loved their position. Jesus was saying not to be like them.

Sadly I have seen plenty of ministers the same. How are we to agree together in prayer if nobody speaks?

God Bless,

Mel

26 posted on 03/06/2003 3:04:52 AM PST by melsec (I hate war but it's time to roll!)
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To: RonF
Very strange reading on Ash Wednesday. Where did you attend?

Acts 1:14-- "They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers."

Acts 4:24-- "When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. "Sovereign Lord," they said, "you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them."

John 17

Jesus Prays for Himself

1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: 2"Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples

6"I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 13"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify[2] them by the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

Jesus Prays for All Believers

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

Seems our Lord prayed out loud, as did his disciples and apostles. Public prayer is edifying, and gives honor to God publically through Jesus Christ.

The Bible says that God does not judge the outside, but judges the heart. Jesus was speaking of the hearts of the Pharisees, which he knew. I don't believe that Ebert knows one persons heart!

40 posted on 03/10/2003 9:54:50 AM PST by tuckrdout
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To: RonF
Note that Jesus does not say public prayer is wrong, only if the INTENT IS TO BE SEEN AND APPROVED BY MEN.
53 posted on 03/11/2003 6:52:54 PM PST by rwfromkansas (Soli Deo Gloria!)
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