Public prayer fanatics borrow page from enemy's script (Ebert Alert)

Chicago Sun-Times ^ | March 5, 2003 | ROGER EBERT

[Chi-townChief]

The Bush administration has been dealt a setback in its campaign to allow prayer in our public schools. The full 9th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals has voted 15-9 to back the 2-1 vote by its earlier panel finding the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional because of the words ''under God.''

The pledge, written in 1892, had those words added to it in 1954, during the Eisenhower administration, and I remember a nun in our Catholic school telling us we had to say it because it was the law--but it was wrong, because it violated the principle of separating church and state.

We started every day with classroom prayer at St. Mary's School, of course, but Sister Rosanne said there was a difference between voluntary prayer in a private religious school and prayer in a school paid for by every taxpayer--a distinction so obvious that Bush and Attorney General John Ashcroft are forced to willfully ignore it.

Ashcroft said after the ruling that his Justice Department will ''spare no effort to preserve the rights of all our citizens to pledge allegiance to the American flag''--a misrepresentation so blatant that it functions as a lie. The pledge remains intact and unchallenged. The court said nothing about pledging allegiance to the flag. It spoke only of the words ''under God''--which amounted, the court said, to an endorsement of religion.

This is really an argument between two kinds of prayer--vertical and horizontal. I don't have the slightest problem with vertical prayer. It is horizontal prayer that frightens me. Vertical prayer is private, directed upward toward heaven. It need not be spoken aloud, because God is a spirit and has no ears. Horizontal prayer must always be audible, because its purpose is not to be heard by God, but to be heard by fellow men standing within earshot.

To choose an example from football, when my team needs a field goal to win and I think, ''Please, dear God, let them make it!''--that is vertical prayer. When, before the game, a group of fans joins hands and ''voluntarily'' recites the Lord's Prayer--that is horizontal prayer. It serves one of two purposes: to encourage me to join them, or to make me feel excluded.

Although some of the horizontal devout are sincere, others use this prayer as a device of recruitment or intimidation. If you are conspicuous in your refusal to go along, they may even turn and pray while holding you directly in their sights.

This simple insight about two kinds of prayer, which is beyond theological question, should bring a dead halt to the obsession with prayer in public places. It doesn't, because the purpose of its supporters is political, not spiritual. Their faith is like Dial soap: Now that they use it, they wish everyone would. I grew up in an America where people of good breeding did not impose their religious convictions upon those they did not know very well. Now those manners have been discarded.

Our attorney general, John Ashcroft, is theoretically responsible for enforcing the separation of church and state. He violates his oath of office daily by getting down on his knees in his government office every morning and welcoming federal employees to join him in ''voluntary'' prayer on carpets paid for by the taxpayers.

His brand of religion is specifically fundamentalist evangelical. As his eyes lift from beneath lowered lids to take informal attendance, would he be gladdened to see a Muslim, a Catholic, a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Baha'i, a Unitarian, a Scientologist, all accompanied by the chants of Hare Krishnas?

Under Bush we have had a great deal of horizontal prayer, in which we evoke the deity at political events to send the sideways message that our enemies had better look out, because God is on our side. This week's Newsweek cover story reports that the Bush presidency ''is the most resolutely 'faith-based' in modern times.''

Because our enemies are for the most part more enthusiastic about horizontal prayer than we are, and see absolutely no difference between church and state--indeed, want to make them the same--it is alarming to reflect that they may be having more success bringing us around to their point of view than we are at sticking to our own traditional American beliefs about freedom of religion. When Ashcroft and his enemies both begin their days with displays of their godliness, do we feel safer after they rise from their devotions?

E-mail Roger Ebert at answerman@suntimes.com

[nightdriver]

"Our attorney general, John Ashcroft, is theoretically responsible for enforcing the separation of church and state."

Uh, no, Roger.

There is no mandate anywhere for the attorney general to be "responsible for enforcing the separation of church and state."

Also, there is no mention of "church" in the Pledge of Allegiance, nor does it refer to anything anywhere near resembling an "establishment of religion."

[weegee]

The man wrote some cheesy porno comedies for Russ Meyer, who hooked him up with a bunch of frisky buxom babes. Roger used a pseudonyn for some of the work.

Over a decade later he married one of the swingers Russ hooked Roger up with. She even had a role in the last film (Beneath The Valley Of The Ultravixens). When Roger saw her ad, he said that he'd like everything but the **** and the ****.

This man's pondering religion and law? Would Larry Flynt carry any less credibility?

Let him eat popcorn.

Roger and wife (with flowers):

Chaz as "Junkyard Sal" in overalls, above the word "Beneath"

[weegee]

"Roger Ebert is the only person I know of who actually takes decisions of the 9th Circus Court seriously."

[Chi-townChief]

Better reread that passage, Ron - you may be the hypocrite who is being referred to.

[AppyPappy]

want to make them the same

Nice strawman, Rog. Where'd you get it?

[melsec]

Just got back from Ash Wednesday services. Here was the second reading, from Matthew 6:1-6,16-21:

While I do appreciate what you are saying and I have a lot of reservation about some public prayer you must have prayed with the priest today when prayers for others were uttered. There are many places in church services where we all pray out loud. Does this violate the verses in Matthews Gospel? Certainly not! This particular verse is talking about the Pharisees who loved to be the ones seen as most important. They got to utter the Jewsih prayers at the exclusion of others and they loved their position. Jesus was saying not to be like them.

Sadly I have seen plenty of ministers the same. How are we to agree together in prayer if nobody speaks?

God Bless,

Mel

[RightOnline]

"When, before the game, a group of fans joins hands and ''voluntarily'' recites the Lord's Prayer--that is horizontal prayer. It serves one of two purposes: to encourage me to join them, or to make me feel excluded."

Ebert, you've sat in the dark and consumed too much junk food for too long.

It isn't always about "you", Roger. I know that as a liberal Democrat you are wired to think that, but you've been taught wrong, boy.

How 'bout a third option: Maybe they just wanted to pray to their God and don't give a flying fiddler's damn what you think?

[Claire Voyant]

So now "under God" is a prayer? I wish.

[Chi-townChief]

It's always amusing when these pigs like Ebert try to use their perverse logic to argue for the suppression of our 1st amendment rights and then tell us that they are defending these rights. I also like how he throws in the comment about "people of good breeding." What do you suppose that means?

[TheRightGuy]

PING

For your ping to Illinois FReepers an (Ebert Alert!) is sufficient.

But for posting this in a nationwide-worldwide forum a full (Projectile Vomit Alert!) should be required.

[RonF]

Prayers in church are offered in church with a group of voluntarily assembled like-minded individuals. The stream of cars in and out of the church building certainly makes the praise and worship of God public. And in any case, corporate worship of God is a fine thing whether its done in a regular venue, or in a public venue especially secured for that purpose, like a revival meeting in a stadium.

Whereas inserting the "under God" clause into the Pledge of Allegiance was, in fact, done to contrast the U.S. with "godless Communism". This appears to me to have been a deliberate effort to get people to make a public show of piety in order to gain approval and praise from others. There's no attempt to determine whether or not the people offering the PoA agree with the statement; what was judged important was that the public both here and abroad notice the statement. It seems to me that this is exactly what Jesus was talking about.

[RonF]

Oh, and I hold no brief for Roger Ebert either. But the fact that he may be advancing this for his own reasons doesn't mean the matter shouldn't be judged on it's merits.

[Chi-townChief]

Jesus said: "And whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues ... " which is what you did and then ran over here to tell us about it: "Just got back from Ash Wednesday services." You may want to exercise a little humility yourself.

BTW, if you and Ebert also object to "In God we trust" printed and stamped on our currency, I'd be more than happy to take it off your hands.

[melsec]

Well said Ron. I find myself, mostly, in agreeance with you. However the person Jesus was talking about was in the synagogue which throws a tiny spanner into both our thoughts!

God Bless,

Mel

[RonF]

I don't normally comment on my worship habits here; I noted that in the context of the anomaly of the juxtaposition of this thread appearing right after I'd heard an applicable scripture reading.

[RonF]

You'll notice the reference to offering prayers while standing on the street corner, in order to make a public show. It's important for God to hear our prayers, which he always does. But to make a special effort to pray in the streets or a non-religious setting (such as a street corner, or a public school) so that other people hear and take note of your piety is apparently against God's will.

[NewLand]

"But to make a special effort to pray in the streets or a non-religious setting (such as a street corner, or a public school) so that other people hear and take note of your piety is apparently against God's will."

That's right, but The Bible states this in the context if that is the only reason or only way someone prays.

If a 7 year old child prays at home, at church, on the school playground, and in a classroom, silently or out loud, your logic clearly, clearly, clearly does not apply.

And after all, the issue at hand is in public schools, where this applies to children, not politically or socially minded men or women.

Prayer is a good thing anytime, anywhere, silent or out loud, as long as your heart is right in the eyes of The Lord. Get over the politics, please. You are, unknowingly, being sucked in by you know who...

[Texas_Jarhead]

After thinking about this some more and reading the additional comments today I have to say that I disagree with your whole premise Ron. The Pledge is not a prayer in the first place. The words "under God" does not a prayer make. They are a simple affirmation, an acclamation if you will, of the heritage and history of America. They affirm our founding belief that our rights emanate from God Almighty and not from Earthly entities. I find this whole line of reasoning built on a false foundation. Is it not better that we affirm our heritage of faith than to deny it? FReegards.

[tuckrdout]

Aren't Ebert and Tom Shales twin brothers?

[tuckrdout]

Very strange reading on Ash Wednesday. Where did you attend?

Acts 1:14-- "They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers."

Acts 4:24-- "When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. "Sovereign Lord," they said, "you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them."

John 17

Jesus Prays for Himself

1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: 2"Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples

6"I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 13"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify[2] them by the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

Jesus Prays for All Believers

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

Seems our Lord prayed out loud, as did his disciples and apostles. Public prayer is edifying, and gives honor to God publically through Jesus Christ.

The Bible says that God does not judge the outside, but judges the heart. Jesus was speaking of the hearts of the Pharisees, which he knew. I don't believe that Ebert knows one persons heart!