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The Fires Of Waco Still Burn In The Heart Of The American Conscience
toogoodreports ^ | Weekender, March 2, 2003 | By Chuck Baldwin

Posted on 02/28/2003 3:17:44 PM PST by Megalomaniac

The Fires Of Waco Still Burn In The Heart Of The American Conscience

By Chuck Baldwin

Toogood Reports [Weekender, March 2, 2003; 12:01 a.m. EST]

February 28th marked the tenth anniversary of the illegal assault by agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms on the home of the Branch Davidians living outside Waco, Texas. A shootout resulted with several deaths on both sides. Shortly afterward, the Federal Bureau of Investigation took over, and on April 19, 1993, agents from both departments (using military hardware and both U.S. and foreign military advisers) laid siege to the dwellings which resulted in the deaths of 87 American citizens. Many of the victims were old men, women, and small children.

The events at Waco have contributed to the distrust and disdain of federal abuse of power like nothing since 1775. Moved by grassroots pressure, the Congress of the United States convened special hearings into the conduct of those federal agencies responsible. The result was less than satisfactory to many Americans.

Federal agents lied under oath without any punitive repercussions. Evidence was conveniently lost. Videotapes of the events revealed deceit, duplicity, arrogance, and a thirst for blood on behalf of the federal agencies involved.

At the end of the hearings, the questions remained unanswered and no one within the government was held accountable. Those Davidians that survived the raid were tried for murder. A jury found them innocent, but no charges were ever brought against any of the agents.

Whatever one thinks of David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, they had committed no capital crimes. Furthermore, it is unconscionable that tanks and other military equipment would be used against mostly women and children within our own country! The bizarre tactics employed by the ATF and FBI at Waco are unfathomable and unforgivable! Our government has been more lenient and patient when dealing with many of America's deadliest enemies than it was in dealing with those poor folks at Waco.

There must never again be another Waco! G-d given, constitutional liberties apply to every American. Under no circumstances must we allow federal agencies to circumvent the laws of our nation!

The demands of liberty and justice rest upon us all. Certainly, Congress plays a part. Their investigation into Waco was inept, to say the least. The media also plays an important role. They have the power to inform; they also have the power to sedate. Absent a love for truth and justice by a lackadaisical media and a cowardly Congress, the fires of Waco still burn in the heart of the American conscience.

Beyond that, we have recently watched as the Bush administration has burgeoned the power and scope of the federal government to proportions not seen since Lincoln invaded the South. We seem to be entering an era of unlimited and unbridled federal power and authority. Therefore, are more Wacos on America's horizon?

It is incumbent upon each of us to seriously ponder our future. Furthermore, it is imperative that each of us is willing to study again the great principles upon which this nation was built. Those principles made us; those principles keep us. Without them, our future is about as permanent as the wooden buildings at Mt. Carmel. Without them, the fire of tyranny will reduce us to the cinders of obscurity.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: wacoplusten
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1 posted on 02/28/2003 3:17:44 PM PST by Megalomaniac
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To: Megalomaniac
"There must never again be another Waco!"

There was no justice served thus the government has given a green light for any future operations. .

2 posted on 02/28/2003 3:22:32 PM PST by Steve Van Doorn
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To: Steve Van Doorn
But Saddam has been guilty of torture, terrorism, poison gas and any number of other atrocities. He is an evil person in every stretch of the word. What does that make Clinton and Reno?
3 posted on 02/28/2003 3:37:57 PM PST by meenie
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To: Steve Van Doorn
There was no justice served thus the government has given a green light for any future operations.

Those 'operations' will not occur without their share of inintended consequences. We've had more than enough of men, women and children shot, burned and gassed to death. We've had more than of innocent people having their faces shot off without the least shred of consequence to the one who did the shooting. Enemies - foreign and domestic.

4 posted on 02/28/2003 3:56:46 PM PST by Noumenon
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To: meenie
What does that make Clinton and Reno?

Fugitives from justice.

5 posted on 02/28/2003 3:57:40 PM PST by Noumenon
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To: All
"The Fires Of Waco Still Burn In The Heart Of The American Conscience"

Oh please...

This is a brutally incompetent headline. Waco isnt anywhere in the American conscience past remembering what happened and making sure it doesnt happen again.

No doubt this story originated at Hyperbole.com

6 posted on 02/28/2003 4:02:11 PM PST by VaBthang4 (We few, we happy few, we band of brothers)
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To: VaBthang4
Amen to that !

Left out of this heart-wrencher is the cold-blooded murder of a Federal Marshal, who had come to secure the court appearance of Koresh ; the Branch Davidians who held children up in front of them as shields as they peered out the windows at the FBI, etc., etc.

For a DIFFERENT perspective ( please note I'm not saying either side had the right of things ) I suggest you read
COLD ZERO - written by a former member of the FBI HRT unit.
7 posted on 02/28/2003 4:21:31 PM PST by genefromjersey (I think the Meds are helping-helping-helping...(Ah-hah-hah-ha !! ))
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To: meenie
"What does that make Clinton and Reno?"

Not hanging from a tree,
not in the slammer.
but rather,
retired and accepting a pension from you and me
8 posted on 02/28/2003 4:58:38 PM PST by APBaer
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To: genefromjersey
"the cold-blooded murder of a Federal Marshal, who had come to secure the court appearance of Koresh "

I think you have Koresh confused with someone else whose name also started with "K" and whose story was a made for TV movie starring Rod Steiger.
9 posted on 02/28/2003 5:01:39 PM PST by APBaer
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To: genefromjersey
This charge was formally brought, and I believe you will find that not one of the Branch Davidians was convicted by a jury of their peers. Your claim is libelous, and 1000 web sites don't make them guilty if a jury didn't.
10 posted on 02/28/2003 5:02:43 PM PST by FredZarguna
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To: Megalomaniac
The real clinton/reno legacy.
11 posted on 02/28/2003 5:06:26 PM PST by 2timothy3.16
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To: meenie
What does that make Clinton and Reno?

Evil persons in every stretch of the word? Sounds right to me!

12 posted on 02/28/2003 5:16:37 PM PST by El Gato
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To: genefromjersey
Left out of this heart-wrencher is the cold-blooded murder of a Federal Marshal, who had come to secure the court appearance of Koresh

What federal marshal would that be? All the government casualties at Waco were BATF agents.

I think you are confusing Waco with Ruby Ridge. Of course the Jury didn't see that one your way either, only convicting Weaver on the original charge of selling a "sawed off shotgun" to a BATF snitch. The jury also did not convict Weaver's friend, Kevin Harris, who is the one who shot Federal Marshall William Degan , after the Marshalls had shot Sammy Weaver's dog and then Sammy himself. It all came out in open court. The original charge was of course a tax matter, amounting to $400 for two of the weapons. You ever own the government $400? Do you think it would be appropriate if they came and shot your kid and then your wife, in the process of collecting that tax. Yes I know the Marshalls were there because he hadn't shown up in court on the failure to pay the tax case, but that was in part because he was given the wrong court date. The BATF pumped up how "dangerous" he was to the Marshalls, thus explaing the long stakeout, the "sneaking and peaking" and so forth.

Oh, BTW, how many true hostages has the FBI's HRT rescued anyway?

13 posted on 02/28/2003 5:48:59 PM PST by El Gato
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To: El Gato
Left out of this heart-wrencher is the cold-blooded murder of a Federal Marshal, who had come to secure the court appearance of Koresh

What federal marshal would that be? All the government casualties at Waco were BATF agents.

The confusion would certainly be understandable, though, wouldn't it? Here's the template of actual events in both cases:

Because of the impatience and arrogance of Federal officers, law enforcement personnel were killed during a botched raid to make arrests arising from technicalities on minor weapons charges.

In response to the events of the raid, and because of misrepresentations made to the FBI by the agency with original jurisdiction, the FBI escalated hostilities by applying rules of engagement which were more aggressive than procedure allowed.

The HRT's over-aggressiveness resulted in needless civilian casualties and deaths.

In the aftermath of the episode, both the FBI-HRT and the Federal agency with original jurisdiction concealed and/or fasified their own documents.

In furtherance of their fabricated version of events, Federal Prosecutors brought murder charges against civilian defendants.

In both cases, the fictional version of events was repudiated by a jury, which failed to find the government's frame-up credible.

And Finally...

Despite compelling evidence against the government, no significant action was ever brought against the agents involved.

That the DOJ tried this once in a place called the United States of America is bad enough. That they attempted to repeat nearly identical criminal actions twice is truly unbelievable.

That anybody would try to defend this disgraceful, criminal, and un-American behavior in a place called Free Republic is absolutely sickening.

14 posted on 02/28/2003 7:01:37 PM PST by FredZarguna
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To: El Gato
You are correct about me confusing the two situations; however,I'd say it's worth noting,a "firefight" broke out at 9:30AM on Sunday, 2/28/93, when ATF agents attempted to execute arrest and search warrants against David Koresh and the Branch Davidian "compound"; and that in the firefight, 4 ATF agents were killed, and 16 were wounded.

Despite this, efforts were continued for approximately 2 months to resolve the issue without further bloodshed: efforts that were frustrated by Koresh and his followers.

I know some folks have been holding out the Branch Davidians as "heros who merely resisted tyranny" , but, when one takes up arms against the lawful government, I do not consider that "heroic resistance".

When these voluntarily beseiged people held up children as shields, while confronting armed government agents,they displayed a grotesque lack of common humanity - which they demonstrated further by dousing their shelter with gasoline and setting it ablaze.

Did the Feds contribute to this "gotterdammerung" ?
Undoubtedly - but I doubt it would have played out any differently at the end.

15 posted on 03/01/2003 5:42:15 PM PST by genefromjersey
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To: genefromjersey
Did the Feds contribute to this "gotterdammerung" ? Undoubtedly - but I doubt it would have played out any differently at the end.

If the BATF had merely sent the "undercover" agents to serve the warrent, their would have been no "gotterdamerung". Koresh/Howell did invite the agents who questioned the owners of the "Mag Bag" about the Davidians purchases out to inspect for illegal automatic weapons and destructive devices. They instead wanted a big show "raid" because of upcoming budget hearings, and because of negative publicity they had been getting about sexual harrassment. They got their publicity alright, probalby not the sort they were looking for, and 4 dead agents to boot.

As far as taking up arms against the "legitmate", and I use the term loosely when it comes to the anti-second amendment activities of the BATF, that is perfectly legal under Texas law, IF the authorities use excessive or unnecessary force. Clearly two cattle trailers full of agents with submachine guns, and a few of the dreaded "assualt weapons" too, was excessive force. Since Koresh had invited them out. There was no real reason for all that firepower. If the intial attempt to serve the warrent were repulsed, then such a military style raid might be justified. No such peaceful service of the arrest and search warrent was ever attempted. The agents shot the Davidians dogs before anyone got close enough to serve the warrents.

That said, the Davidians had good reason to fear the federal government after the raid, but they still could and should have surrenedered after the FBI took over the case. Koresh quite likely was several bricks shy of a full load, but that is not a capitial offense. Nor is ducking behind a door in the face of numerous masked and armed mean charging towards your front door.

I'd say it's worth noting,a "firefight" broke out at 9:30AM on Sunday, 2/28/93, when ATF agents attempted to execute arrest and search warrants against David Koresh and the Branch Davidian "compound"; and that in the firefight, 4 ATF agents were killed, and 16 were wounded.

The evidence is pretty clear that the BATF shot first, shot from the helicopter or helicopters, and generally started that "firefight", while the Davidians merely responded in self defense. Heck they even dialed 911, to try to get the local sherrif out to help them.

16 posted on 03/01/2003 8:59:53 PM PST by El Gato
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To: genefromjersey
When these voluntarily beseiged people held up children as shields, while confronting armed government agents,they displayed a grotesque lack of common humanity

This is the first time I've heard or read of this allegation. Any evidence to go with it? I'd also observe that the agents knew of the large numbers of women and children in the "compound" when planning and practicing their "dynamic entry" raid on it. I'd give more credance to many of the allegations of the BATF agents if it weren't for the fact that all the evidence that might back up their claims, seems to have disappeared. This includes film and video taken of the raid by the BATF. What film that does exist shows that they were set up to have plenty of documentation of what they thought would be a quick and easy raid, with lots of guns, most or all of them completely legal of course, to lay out for the post raid "photo op". They were right as it turns out, there were lots of guns in the "compound". That's hardly unusual in Texas, especially if a resident of that "compound" holds a federal firearms (dealers) license, and makes all or part of his living selling guns at gunshows and at other times and places.

17 posted on 03/01/2003 9:10:49 PM PST by El Gato
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To: meenie
Great point, Saddam/Clinton/Reno, a lot a like.
18 posted on 03/04/2003 8:11:52 AM PST by buffyt (Can you say President Hillary - Mistress of Darkness?.......Me neither!!!!!!!!!)
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To: genefromjersey
"...when ATF agents attempted to execute arrest and search warrants against David Koresh and the Branch Davidian "compound";..."

It has been widely discussed on FR that the warrants had been left back at the office.

Please explain why the BATF fired many rounds (until they ran out of ammo) into a building that they knew contained many children.

19 posted on 03/04/2003 8:32:09 AM PST by gatex
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To: genefromjersey
"...efforts were continued for approximately 2 months to resolve the issue without further bloodshed: efforts that were frustrated by Koresh and his followers."

FBI agent Clint Van Zandt (sp ?) revealed on Geraldo's show that when the Davidians came outside the building, they were driven back inside with flashbangs.

"The FBI was afraid of a mass breakout," he said. This contradicts the propaganda that the Davidians would not come out.

20 posted on 03/04/2003 8:38:17 AM PST by gatex
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