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To: freepatriot32
I’ve worked in agriculture for 30 years, and there are a few things that are incorrect [or incomplete] about Bovard’s article:

1st The article misses a number of pricey “hidden subsidies” that cost at least as much as direct price support. For example: “free” USDA research programs, the “free” agricultural extension service, “free” educational services and research in the land-grant universities [in addition to ag extension], “free” dairy promotions, and so on.

2nd, NZ and Aussie farmers can’t produce Milk for <1/2 of what our farmers can do. The actual $ number is more like 70% of the cost, however, since there has never really been any competitive pressure on the US dairy industry we don’t really know. There are definitely US producers who can produce milk more efficiently than they can in New Zeeland, but they don’t need to, because, as the article correctly points out, we have a socialist dairy economy.

3rd, It isn’t true that corporate farms produce milk more cheaply or more efficiently than family operations. The truth is that in a competitive environment, family farms would not be going out of business. But, since subsidies favor those with high raw production, [who already benefit form economies of scale] we are killing our family farms with the very subsidies that are supposed to protect them, and finally,

4th. the post fails to address the fundamental problem with subsidies of any kind: they hurt everyone. They hurt consumers, yes. They hurt taxpayers, yes. But they hurt dairy farmers more than any other group. Subsidies always do the most harm to the very people who’ve been hoodwinked into believing they’re beneficiaries. If the subsidies would end, about 50-60% of our least efficient farmers would go out of business. This would not only lower costs to consumers, but it would allow those who remained to actually make some money. What the article doesn’t tell you is that the dairy economy is tremendously depressed and has been so for more than 15 years because there are so many bad businessmen, hobby farmers, and just incredibly under-educated people on the [agricultural] public dole. Keeping them there depresses prices and drives good farmers out of business.

Yet, I can’t tell you how many FFA, 4H, DHIA and Holstein Association dinners that I’ve attended over the last 30 years where farmers and farmer’s wives have berated me for being against subsidies. When I point out to them that there have been numerous studies [including an excellent one just recently by the Heritage Foundation] that prove that subsidies hurt dairymen, they simply don’t believe it.

Why is Social Security the 3rd rail of American politics? For the same reason. Because you can't convince old people that Social Security is damaging them. But it is. And price supports, federal milk marketing, and all the rest, are destroying our diarymen as well.

3 posted on 02/23/2003 3:05:59 PM PST by FredZarguna
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To: FredZarguna
This would not only lower costs to consumers, but it would allow those who remained to actually make some money.

I'm a computer programmer who's been unemployed for 13 months. I've finally found a job in another field which has a future. It's been a miserable year and I'm suffering financially; but economically it makes sense for the country.

The fact is that there are too many programmers, wages are dropping, and so some of us need to get out. Imagine if the government paid companies to keep programmers on staff even if there wasn't any necessary programming to be done.

Sure, my life would have been a lot easier this past year, but thousands of dollars would have been diverted from potentially productive use.

My dear old Dad was actually a lobbyist in Albany for upstate dairymen and is no doubt rolling over in his grave for my saying this, but it is well past time for the government to drop these price supports and regulations.

As you alluded to, the dairymen in upstate NY are still barely scraping by, their numbers continue to drop -- and the successful still benefit from the subsidies.

6 posted on 02/23/2003 3:37:08 PM PST by BfloGuy (The past is like a different country, they do things different there.)
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To: FredZarguna
Yet, I can’t tell you how many FFA, 4H, DHIA and Holstein Association dinners that I’ve attended over the last 30 years where farmers and farmer’s wives have berated me for being against subsidies.

Dad and I run cattle. I think I'm the last one in the county, perhaps the state, who doesn't take government subsidies. After a lifetime of resisting, my dad finally started a few years ago. I figure that socialism is a harmless retirment hobby and they did soften him up with those SS checks first so they can't blame him.

The irony is that, for the first time, we've received protein support for cattle for drought. So, I got my dad to sign up for it. And they used up all that surplus dried milk to make the protein feed and get rid of the huge surplus stocks.

Socialized farming is crazy and hurts farmers more than anything except allowing Asia and Europe to block our entry to their markets. Europe is especially annoying because they charge so much for mediocre foods, by the reports of people I know who go over.

Keep milking those cows. If we have more drought, the taxpayers need to buy more of your surplus milk to feed to my cows. God only knows why people aren't up in arms over this bullcrap.
9 posted on 02/23/2003 5:04:07 PM PST by George W. Bush
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