Question about power to declare war

[daveleau]

I know the president does not have to declare war to send troops abroad, but what is the actual Constitutional basis (or other precedent) for this executive power?

[UB355]

War Powers Act

http://www.luminet.net/~tgort/wpa.htm

[Diogenesis]

Saudi Arabia and Islam declared war on America on 911 and earlier.

[Lysander]

The Constitution no longer applies...

[Burkeman1]

I would say the constitution stopped applying when FDR sent his message to the Supreme Court by trying to pack it.

I think a poignant moment came when Bob Barr and others tried to stop Clinton and his disgusting attack on Serbia and many "conservative" publications like National Review and The Weekly Standard attacked him for it and supported that rotten Clinton war.

[Burkeman1]

Illegals? Bush ain't sending any of them home except a few hundred arabs. The rest stay here and milk off the rest of us while they hate us and plot our doom.

[daveleau]

Thanks, UB355. That is what I was looking for. While I am just as emotional about 9/11, I was looking for the legal text that gave the president the power.

How did the President legally conduct the Korean and Vietnam wars? Was the illegal nature brushed under the rug, or was there a precursor to the 1973 War Powers Act?

[templar]

I would say the constitution stopped applying when FDR sent his message to the Supreme Court by trying to pack it.

From another point of view, it was when the American people didn't rise up against him for it. The ultimate credit is always with us, be it for vigilance or for apathy.

[Burkeman1]

David Tirado- died 9/11 in the first tower. Darn. Your post brought it all back.

[daveleau]

I am truly sorry for the loss. Was he a member here? who was he?

[El Gato]

I know the president does not have to declare war to send troops abroad, but what is the actual Constitutional basis (or other precedent) for this executive power?

His status as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. Article II section 2, Constitution of the United States:

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into actual Service of the United States"

He's the boss and can order them wherever he pleases. Congress can deny him funding to do so if it wishes. This power does not derive from the War Powers Act, although that Act does touch upon the power and it's limitations as determined by Congress. President Jefferson sent the Navy to the Med to take care of the Barbrary Pirates without a declaration of War by Congress amd that was well before the war powers act, although one of the Barbary states did declare war on us, IIRC.

Oh, and BTW, the President cannot declare war, that's up to Congress. He can fight one thought without such a formal declaration. The latest, 1970s version, of the War Powers Act limits how long he can do so without formally at least notifying Congress.

[El Gato]

How did the President legally conduct the Korean and Vietnam wars? Was the illegal nature brushed under the rug, or was there a precursor to the 1973 War Powers Act?

You've got it backwards, the President always had the power to order the miliatry into combat, the War Powers Act limited that power, not created it. Consider again the case of the Barbry Corsairs (Pirates) in the late 1790s and early 1800's.

[tuknet]

With respect to what powers a formal declaration of war gives to the executive, I recommend a reading of the World War I and World War II formal declarations of war by Congress. They are here somewhere on FreeRepublic. In the last formal declarations all resources of the country are devoted to the cause of total victory, at the complete whim of the president.

All the domestic troubles we now face prosecuting this war would be moot with a declaration modeled on the previous two world wars.

[Dalite]

I was looking for the legal text that gave the president the power.

How did the President legally conduct the Korean and Vietnam wars? Was the illegal nature brushed under the rug, or was there a precursor to the 1973 War Powers Act?

---

For background info, Congressional Record of 73rd Congress - Volume 77 Part One, pages 65-85.

Trading with the Enemy act of 1917 (12 USCS part 95a) was ammended to 12 USCS Part 95b, giving president extra constitutional to wage war against an emergency (at that time economy and bank closings). This signed into law March 9th, 1933 as HR-1491. Skip ahead to the Congressional Research Service publication 93-549 in 1973, which stated we have been under a state of emergency ever since March 9th, 1933. Many attempts have been made to repeal War and Emergency Powere (W.E.P.), but all have failed so far. March 9th, 1933 and 12 USCU part 95b are quoted to be the reason for Executive extraConstitutional power, and are considered to have let FDR (and all presidents since) basically set aside the Constitution in a state of emergency, which we have been under for every second of recorded history since March 9th, 1933.

[Edmund Burke]

It is against international law to attack a county without declaring war first. It is considered unchivalrous. Declaring war puts the other county on notice about your intentions.

[Burkeman1]

No- He wasn't a member here. He was the inside tech for Rent-A-PC in New York. Rent-A-PC is a national chain of shops that rent out high end computer and AV hardware to corporations. I was in the Boston office on 9/11. I had worked for another company that Rent-A-PC bought but then left to go to a "dot.com". Well I came back to Rent-A-PC on 9/1 or there about. I had talked to Dave several times about deals and stock exchanges that both of our offices would be dealing with. On 9/11 the New York office was short handed and there was a delivery at "Windows on the World" at WTC I and Dave - though he was only inside and did the programming and configured clients orders with their software- wanted to go. We hope he was killed in the elevator and didn't feel anything. We don't know.

I just remember that day- looking on the company system from Boston to see if anyone had a delivery at WTC and we knew we did. When we watched those towers get hit and then fall- we knew one or more from our company was dead.

[InspiredPath1]

The real question is, "What exactly does a declaration of war do?" If there's anyone out there who can answer what the significance of a declaration of war is I'd love to know.

A formal declaration of war from congress triggers several domestic practices, for example - detention of any Iraqi Nationals in the USA, the breaking off of all diplomatic ties, etc.

Rumsfeld explained this in one of his briefings.

[Senator Pardek]

All right. I'm gonna type it for the last time, and as a disclaimer, I'm stating I'm against attacking Iraq as of the time of this post.

There is nothing in The Constitution concerning a "Formal Declaration of War".

The Framers wanted the Congress to hold the purse strings and the ability to impeach and convict a POTUS who would engage in a war against the peoples' wishes.

The Congress has said it supports this action, so it is more constitutional than your right to say "penis" in your bedroom closet.

Grow up, arm-chair constitutionalists - you're idiots.