Posted on 02/12/2003 11:17:57 AM PST by meandog
ATLANTA (AP) — Gov. Sonny Perdue, who campaigned with a promise to let voters decide whether to bring back the old state flag dominated by a Confederate emblem, will propose putting the question on the ballot at the same time as the 2004 presidential primary, a newspaper reported Wednesday.
Supporters of the emblem say it represents Southern heritage, while blacks and others say it represents racism and slavery.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution said voters will be asked two ballot questions, with the first being a yes-no question on whether the current flag should be kept.
Voters will then be asked whether they wish to revert to the previous state flag with its Confederate battle emblem, or a flag that flew until 1956 and did not bear a confederate St. Andrews Cross symbol.
State and national Republicans had worried that a flag referendum the same day as the presidential election could spark a huge turnout by blacks and moderate whites and potentially affect the fortunes of GOP candidates, including President Bush.
By choosing to schedule the referendum during the March primary instead, Perdue averts that problem, but that is expected to be fought by Democrats.
The vote would not be binding. If voters reject the current flag, the flag they favor would be submitted to the Legislature, which would have the final say.
The newspaper said it obtained details of Perdue's plan from people close to those who attended meetings with the governor Tuesday.
The current flag, featuring a tiny image of the Confederate emblem, was adopted in 2001 at the behest of Democratic Gov. Roy Barnes. He was defeated in a re-election bid in the fall, and blamed public anger over the new flag.
It replaced a banner adopted in 1956, in the midst of Southern segregationist defiance, that carried the Confederate battle emblem.
"The South" does not equal the CSA, or partisanship for "southern heritage".
I love the south too, and because I love the south, I rejoice in the failure of the rebellion.
Walt
The AJC is a lousy paper, no doubt about it.
Walt
I'd say that Atlanta generally is more liberal than the rest of Georgia. Many have remarked on the dichotomy.
Walt
Not supported in the record.
"The per capita output of the principal southern food crops actually declined in the 1850's, and this agricultural society was headed toward the status of a food deficit region."
--"BattleCry of Freedom, James McPherson, p. 100
When it came to southern cotton or northern wheat, guess what Europe needed the worst?
Walt
But, in todays AJC we have the following:
'House Democrats are split on the idea of a referendum, which Smyre [chairman of both the powerful House Rules committee and the state Democratic Party] said is why the Republican governor introduced it in that chamber, rather than the GOP-controlled Senate. "We got the bill on the 14th day of the session. So it's going to take us a little bit of time to digest it," Smyre said.'Galloway also writes,
Jim Galloway, Atlanta Journal-Constitution 14 Feb 2003
'A House Democratic leader [Smyre] said Thursday that he'll slow the debate over Sonny Perdue's proposed referendum on the state flag -- in part to allow a startled Georgia business community time to decide whether it wants to back the governor or not.'That didn't happen last time. When Barnes introduced the change to remove the post-56 flag, it was reported out of committee on 24 Jan 2001, and signed into law on 31 Jan 2001 by ex-Governor "King" Roy Barnes - the new flag hoisted at 10:47AM over the capitol. Changed in exactly one week.
Fortunately" as in presaging the collapse of the USA? That was the goal of the secessionists, after all.
They were trying to leave, not overthrow the government
Mr. Lincoln can answer you:
"This is essentially a people's contest. On the side of the Union, it is a struggle for maintaining in the world, that form, and substance of government, whose leading object is, to elevate the condition of men -- to lift artificial weights from all shoulders -- to clear the paths of laudable pursuit for all -- to afford all, an unfettered start, and a fair chance, in the race of life. Yielding to partial, and temporary departures, from necessity, this is the leading object of the government for whose existance we contend."
A. Lincoln 7/4/61
Walt
"South Carolina...cannot get out of this Union until she conquers this government. The revenues must and will be collected at her ports, and any resistance on her part will lead to war. At the close of that war we can tell with certainty whether she is in or out of the Union. While this government endures there can be no disunion...If the overt act on the part of South Carolina takes place on or after the 4th of March, 1861, then the duty of executing the laws will devolve upon Mr. Lincoln. The laws of the United States must be executed-- the President has no discretionary power on the subject -- his duty is emphatically pronounced in the Constitution. Mr. Lincoln will perform that duty. Disunion by armed force is treason, and treason must and will be put down at all hazards. The Union is not, and cannot be dissolved until this government is overthrown by the traitors who have raised the disunion flag. Can they overthrow it? We think not."
Illinois State Journal, November 14, 1860
Turns out they couldn't overthrow it.
Walt
That's not what Sherman said
What, never heard "Love it or leave it"?
Walt
Well, since I noted that the poll on that cartoon was 70-30 in favor, it has changed to 55-45 in favor. I guess someone "freeped" the poll, which is typical of "southern" honor.
Walt
The post #52 in in question states thusly:
Sherman in a June 21 letter to Secretary of War Stanton:To which you rejoined, 'And mine.'There is a class of people [Southerners] men, women, and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order."
Stanton reply:
Your letter of the the 21st of June has just reached me and meets my approval.
Or banished.
Don't let the door hit you in the butt.
No one who loves the USA would post the crap you do.
Walt
I've made the same argument here in the past, but unfortunately many on these Confederacy/Civil War/South-in-general threads already have their minds made up. No amount of logic, reason, or fact will change the minds of those who believe that 1) the South is full of doofus, bucktoothed hicks who wouldn't be able to survive without the help of our Northern benefactors, 2) we sit around all day everyday pining for the "good old days" of slavery and Jim Crow, and 3) we're still fighting the Civil War (heck, we have enough to worry about with the one yet to come). To them all pride we Southerners have for our homes, our culture, our cuisine, our beautiful women, our great football and fishing, and all other things Southern, stems from the fact that we had slavery 140 years ago.
I have tried to explain to them that not only is it a symbol of our heritage, but also a nationwide symbol of today's struggle against what many see as the government's increasing infringement against our property rights, our parental rights, our RKBA, and so on. That's why I've seen the flag flying in New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Colorado, Arizona, and many other non-Southern states I've lived or worked in. But those who march in the lockstep of conventional wisdom will not listen to anything other than parroting of their belief that the Reconstruction should never have ended.
I'm with you completely, bro, because I'm a proud Southerner, too. But your reason will not get through the armor of many thick skulls on these threads.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
All well and good and the way I saw it myself maybe 10 years ago.
But you have this vocal group who rails at President Lincoln and lies about the real heroes of the war -- Union soldiers.
What you describe is NOT what it means to them. To them it is just a front for the racism they can no longer openly express.
Walt
So unless we worship at the feet of a man that destroyed the Constitution we as Southerners don't love these United States? Some people might say the same about the voting record you have readily admitted in the past ten years Walt.
Yet you shout for lincoln as if worship at his feet overrides all other character flaws. Careful Walt, worship of lincoln doesn't forgive such transactions and contrary to you and some other's popular belief systems, lincoln didn't go stepping out of boats to walk on water either
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