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Air Force imagery confirms Columbia wing damaged
Spaceflightnow.com ^ | 02/07/03 | CRAIG COVAULT

Posted on 02/07/2003 4:30:37 AM PST by The Magical Mischief Tour

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To: KC_for_Freedom; Gracey
True, but contractors are "scored" as to how well they have substituted from the bad list of chemicals to the "pc" list of chemicals. Many companies have management edicts to make that changeover 100%, since the environmental weenies claim that the substitutes are just as good as what they replace.

Bingo! NASA "Award Fees" determine whether the contractor makes a profit that year or not.

221 posted on 02/07/2003 12:05:50 PM PST by snopercod
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To: jlogajan
The video you are referring to was an out of focus condition where the shape of the video camera iris formed the shape of the bright object.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same video frame. I took another look at it and it appears to be in sharp focus. You can clearly see defined edges, as well as shadows in the right places on the belly of the orbiter.

The image on the frame is not symetrical, as it would be if it were an iris artifact.

222 posted on 02/07/2003 12:14:50 PM PST by snopercod
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
I'd sure like to see these images. Let's hope they are released soon.
223 posted on 02/07/2003 12:20:37 PM PST by Fury
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To: Sacajaweau
Entry interface is considered to occur at 400,000 feet altitude approximately 4,400 nautical miles (5,063 statute miles) from the landing site and at approximately 25,000 feet per second velocity.

At 400,000 feet altitude, the orbiter is maneuvered to zero degrees roll and yaw (wings level) and at a predetermined angle of attack for entry. The angle of attack is 40 degrees. The flight control system issues the commands to roll, pitch and yaw reaction control system jets for rate damping.

The orbiter's speed brake is used below Mach 10 to induce a more positive downward elevator trim deflection. At approximately Mach 3.5, the rudder becomes activated, and the aft reaction control system yaw engines are deactivated at 45,000 feet.

Entry guidance must dissipate the tremendous amount of energy the orbiter possesses when it enters the Earth's atmosphere to assure that the orbiter does not either burn up (entry angle too steep) or skip out of the atmosphere (entry angle too shallow) and that the orbiter is properly positioned to reach the desired touchdown point.

During entry, energy is dissipated by the atmospheric drag on the orbiter's surface. Thus, descent rate and down ranging are controlled by bank angle. The steeper the bank angle, the greater the descent rate and the greater the drag. Conversely, the minimum drag attitude is wings level. Cross range is controlled by bank reversals.

The entry thermal control phase is designed to keep the backface temperatures within the design limits. A constant heating rate is established until below 19,000 feet per second.

The equilibrium glide phase shifts the orbiter from the rapidly increasing drag levels of the temperature control phase to the constant drag level of the constant drag phase. The equilibrium glide flight is defined as flight in which the flight path angle, the angle between the local horizontal and the local velocity vector, remains constant. Equilibrium glide flight provides the maximum downrange capability. It lasts until the drag acceleration reaches 33 feet per second squared.

In the transition phase, the angle of attack continues to ramp down, reaching the approximately 14-degree angle of attack at the entry Terminal Area Energy Management (TAEM) interface, at approximately 83,000 feet altitude, 2,500 feet per second, Mach 2.5 and 52 nautical miles (59 statute miles) from the landing runway. Control is then transferred to TAEM guidance.

During the entry phases described, the orbiter's roll commands keep the orbiter on the drag profile and control cross range.

224 posted on 02/07/2003 12:20:46 PM PST by snopercod
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To: kjam22
And you're serious???

Who's kidding who, anyway???

Stand up, get some oxygen to your brain...

Then try again.

225 posted on 02/07/2003 12:41:15 PM PST by Capitalist Eric
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To: Capitalist Eric
To suggest that there was several hundred miles per hour difference in speed between the foam and the shuttle is just not a serious idea. The distance from release point to impact point being 50 feet is a limiting factor. You really believe that the foam decelerated several hundred miles per hour in 50 feet??? In less than 1/6th of a second?
226 posted on 02/07/2003 12:55:08 PM PST by kjam22
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To: jlogajan
This the one you say is an artifact?


227 posted on 02/07/2003 12:59:02 PM PST by snopercod
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To: kjam22
You really believe that the foam decelerated several hundred miles per hour in 50 feet??? In less than 1/6th of a second?

I raised this line of reasoning in another thread. I assume it is part of the reason why NASA did not expect trouble, and why they are still looking for alternative explanations. It's pretty hard to make an effective bullet out of styrofoam, unless it's attached to ice.

228 posted on 02/07/2003 12:59:14 PM PST by js1138
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To: brityank
Thanks for the nomination! };^D)
229 posted on 02/07/2003 1:01:51 PM PST by RJayneJ (Are there any quilters out there?)
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To: Capitalist Eric
You're saying that the foam released from the booster, and decelerated so quickly that the shuttle rearended it at a speed that is several hundered miles per hour faster than the foam was traveling because of its deceleration. And the distance from release point to impact point is only 50 feet. And mathmatics tells us that to obtain that much difference in speed, that the foam had to have traveled the 50 feet from release point to impact point in less than 1/6th of a second.
230 posted on 02/07/2003 1:02:30 PM PST by kjam22
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To: js1138
Yep.... common sense has to come into the picture at some point.
231 posted on 02/07/2003 1:03:40 PM PST by kjam22
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To: snopercod
No (if that is what broke off), it did so before the orbiter turned sideways, which makes sense.

We now know factually that the rear starboard yaw thrusters activated before the mystery piece broke off, and that there was some sort of problem with them as reported by Dittemore. That possibly could have turned the orbiter sideways.

What sort of force do you figure broke off the vertical stab if it wasn't caused by a yawing force?

232 posted on 02/07/2003 1:08:58 PM PST by Moonman62
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
Given the detailed telemetry concerning flight control surface and rocket firings to correct the reentry attitude, I wonder if NASA has reported if any unusual attitude corrections were noted after the foam impact after launch.
233 posted on 02/07/2003 1:11:13 PM PST by ampat
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To: null and void
Yes, but actualy the original Hornet was sunk by a Japanese torpedo shortly after the battle of Midway. Another carrier was named Hornet later but I do not recall when it was first commissioned.
234 posted on 02/07/2003 1:22:30 PM PST by Mat_Helm
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To: bvw
Get off your soapbox - if you're for environmental stuff, so be it. You can try to avoid any responsibility, but it won't work with me.

Yes, NASA made the decision; yes, NASA might have gotten an exception. However, that does not exempt the fact that an environmentally friendly and people killing material may have been used.
235 posted on 02/07/2003 1:28:08 PM PST by CyberAnt ( Yo! Syracuse)
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To: DonnerT
Hmmm. What happened to the 4:30 EST NASA briefing? Nothing on CSPAN or NASA TV. This should be the briefing with more technical data about the Air Force picture showing damage to the left wing.
236 posted on 02/07/2003 1:43:15 PM PST by Truth29
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To: kjam22
To suggest that there was several hundred miles per hour difference in speed between the foam and the shuttle is just not a serious idea.

Only if you don't understand the physics involved. That NASA estimates the delta-V at ~500 MPH would seem to indicate that they, too, grasp the physics I've already described better than you appear to...

The distance from release point to impact point being 50 feet is a limiting factor. You really believe that the foam decelerated several hundred miles per hour in 50 feet??? In less than 1/6th of a second?

The distance is not the "limiting" factor... There are several involved- surface area exposed to the full force of the air flow, the relatively low density of the material, the hardness of it, etc.

It's way too simplistic to ignore these things...

ONLY when you ignore the physics involved, does damage from the foam insulation appear remote (if not impossible). To anyone who does understand these issues, the chances go from "slim-to-none" to "quite possible" or even "probable," depending on who you ask...

My money has been- since I heard about the insulation hitting the wing- that this is the primary reason the Columbia was lost.

I get the same response from enviro-Nazi's from time to time, when they get on their soap-box about the long-lived radioactive isotopes associated with nuclear power... (My specialty happens to be nuclear power and robotics, not astrophysics...) Common misconceptions or a fundamantel ignorance of certain facts are far more interesting, than reality- which is why enviro-nuts are strictly anti-nuke... They simply fear (and therefore protest) something they obviously don't understand...

When you look at the big picture with regard to the shuttle... this is the only that makes sense... Everything points to this...

237 posted on 02/07/2003 1:44:20 PM PST by Capitalist Eric
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To: Capitalist Eric
You're saying that the foam slowed by several hundred miles per hour in less than 1/6th of a second. In fact to get to a 500 mile per hour difference it requires the foam to slow 500 miles per hour in less than 1/12th of a second. Nope... I don't believe that. And I don't think NASA believes it either. And what's more, the video doesn't support it. I think that is why they are looking at other options.
238 posted on 02/07/2003 1:51:14 PM PST by kjam22
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To: Mat_Helm
Damm! I hate it when facts get in the way of a good story...
239 posted on 02/07/2003 1:53:53 PM PST by null and void
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To: DoughtyOne
In the local Clear Lake area people that work for NASA are seen all over the place. Some of them have numerous indentification and or security badges/tags connected to string or ribbons around their necks. IE: taggers
240 posted on 02/07/2003 1:54:30 PM PST by isthisnickcool
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