A Chat with Paul Nelson on the Cambrian Explosion

Paul Nelson is a leading proponent of Intelligent Design and this promises to be a very good discussion. Best of all, unlike some of the ISCID on-line forums, this is free.

The bottom half of the geologic column (( no fossils )) formed from below . . .

and the top half formed rather quickly from above (( no intermediary fossils )) - - -

uniformism (( time )) // evolution is ==== gone // over // never happened !

read later

((((((growl)))))

I took enough geology in college to know that prospecting has everything to do with probablility and nothing to do with evolution or so-called geologic time.

I have a meeting in 20 minutes so I'll be brief and give a few reasons why the earth is young:

Because the growth of coral reefs has been measured, no coral formaton need be over 3400 years old

The same with stalagmites and stalactites Radiometric contradictions abound, making it unreliable.

The geologic column exists only in text books. If the earth's layers were formed over millions of years, they should be relatively consistent everywhere.

Human artifacts have been found in layers dating back millions of years.

Human footprints dating back 150 million to 600 million years ago have been found in Utah, Kentucky, Missouri, possibly PA and TX.

Radioactive decay of only uranium and thorium would produce all the atmosphere's He in only 40k years. The atmosphere has not yet stabilized.

Lead diffuses from zircon crystals at a known rate. The rate increases with temperature. Greater depths and temps should reveal less pb in the crystals. If the earth were even a fraction of the supposed geologic age, we should be able to measure a difference in the crystals found in the first 2 miles of the earth's crust. Instead, no measurable difference is found between the crystals near the surface and the crystals deep in the hot earth.

Since you claim to be familiar with the oil drilling business, you may know that gas, oil and water are trapped in relatively permeable rock. The pressure disappears somewhere between 10k and 100k years. There is no possible way for the oil to be trapped for 50 million years.I am talking about serious men (often Christian men) who raise their families based on tests which tell them where the oil, gold, copper, uranium might be due to geological movements of millions of years.

Volcanoes belch a cubic mile of debris into the atmosphere each year. If the earth is 4.6 billion years old, about 10x the earth's volume should have been put into the atmosphere and that's at current rates. Evos claim that volcanic activity was higher in the past.

The rate of continental erosion indicates a young earth.

River sediment transport indicates a young earth

The rate of accumulation of minerals and salts in the ocean indicates a young earth.

Meteorite material is found in relatively shallow earth.

Meteoric dust accumulation indicates a young earth.

The rate of decay of the earth's magnetic fields indicates a young earth.

The rate of cooling of the earth indicates a young earth.

The rate of recession of the moon indicates a young earth.

The accumulation of dust on the moon indicates a young moon.

There are many more reasons such as OOP artifacts but I'm late for the meeting.

87 posted on 02/02/2003 3:33 PM PST by Dataman

.. .. .. 'lifted' (( link )) !

Since I only have time to deal with a certain amount of nonsense per day, I'll pick two at random....

(Anybody know how to patch dart holes in an LCD screen?)

Radioactive decay of only uranium and thorium would produce all the atmosphere's He in only 40k years.

Most helium produced by radioactive decay ends up where the original radioactive elements were -- underground. Any helium that gets into the atmosphere quickly escapes to space.

Volcanoes belch a cubic mile of debris into the atmosphere each year. If the earth is 4.6 billion years old, about 10x the earth's volume should have been put into the atmosphere and that's at current rates.

First, you seem a bit arithmetic-challenged, resulting in an error of three orders of magnitude (the volume of the earth is 4/3 pi 4000^3 = 2.6*10^11 mi^3). Second, your claim, however many orders of magnitude off it is, has no relevance to begin with.

Thanks for the heads up!

The bottom half (( pre cambrian )) of the geologic column (( no fossils )) formed from below . . .

and the top half (( cambrian // post cambrian )) formed rather quickly from above (( no intermediary fossils )) - - -

uniformism (( time )) // evolution is ==== gone // over // never happened !

I used to be young earth before I realized that I was wrong. I suppose the speed of light was too big a hurdle for me to get over. Check out: http://www.reasons.org a Christian astronomical website that has an 'old earth' orientation.

..what specifically about the speed of light convinces you that the earth is an old earth?

I used to be young earth before I realized that I was wrong. I suppose the speed of light was too big a hurdle for me to get over. Check out: http://www.reasons.org a Christian astronomical website that has an 'old earth' orientation.

But time is not a constant and is affected by gravity. If you start with an event like the big bang, or something similar, with all the mass of the universe in a very small location creating a huge gravitational effect, how does that affect the passage of time?

The bottom half (( pre cambrian )) of the geologic column (( no fossils )) formed from below . . .

and the top half (( cambrian // post cambrian )) formed rather quickly from above (( no intermediary fossils )) - - -

uniformism (( time )) // evolution is ==== gone // over // never happened !

Evolution is a hopeless dichotomy ==== dead end branch of science ==== get over it !

I took enough geology in college (NOT ENOUGH, OR ELSE YOU DIDN"T PAY ATTENTION) to know that prospecting has everything to do with probablility and nothing to do with evolution or so-called geologic time. (THIS IS NONSENSICAL. AND SOMETIMES DETERMINATION OF THE GEOLOGIC AGE BY IDENTIFICATION OF PALEO-FLORA AND -FAUNA IS ESSENTIAL TO EXPLORATION).

**Because the growth of coral reefs has been measured, no coral formaton need be over 3400 years old

Does that mean the coral reefs we see today would be the same coral reefs of a million years ago? Take Reefs through Time, with Dr. Gregg Webb.

**The geologic column exists only in text books. If the earth's layers were formed over millions of years, they should be relatively consistent everywhere.

Does that mean all seismic activity, structural events, plate tectonics, sedimentation rates and erosional events are the same all over the world? Take Physical Geology with Dr. Cory Conrad.

**Human artifacts have been found in layers dating back
millions of years.

Where is your evidence?

**Human footprints dating back 150 million to 600 million years ago have been found in Utah, Kentucky, Missouri, possibly PA and TX.

Where is your evidence?

**Since you claim to be familiar with the oil drilling business, you may know that gas, oil and water are trapped in relatively permeable rock. The pressure disappears somewhere between 10k and 100k years. There is no possible way for the oil to be trapped for 50 million years.I am talking about serious men (often Christian men) who raise their families based on tests which tell them where the oil, gold, copper, uranium might be due to geological movements of millions of years.

You seriously need to take Petroleum Geology, and Introduction to Petroleum Geochemistry. YEESH!!

**River sediment transport indicates a young earth

How much sediment is deposited in the Gulf Of Mexico each year? How many years would it take to fill the Gulf of Mexico? What about paleo basins? Take Dr. Elmore's Sedimentology.

Just calling evolution a theory is an overstatement . . .

only an idea // mood // feeling - - -

an ideology === perverse oddity ! ! !

To: f.Christian

Conjecture masquarading as science might be more appropos - I agree.

71 posted on 01/21/2003 12:04 PM PST by Havoc ((Evolution is a theory, Creationism is God's word, ID is science, Sanka is coffee))

DOGMA masquarading as science might be more appropos - I agree.

Main Entry: dog·ma
Pronunciation: 'dog-m&, 'däg-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural dogmas also dog·ma·ta /-m&-t&/
Etymology: Latin dogmat-, dogma, from Greek, from dokein to seem -- more at DECENT
Date: 1638
1 a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b : a code of such tenets < pedagogical dogma > c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2 : a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church

Main Entry: 1con·jec·ture
Pronunciation: k&n-'jek-ch&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin conjectura, from conjectus, past participle of conicere, literally, to throw together, from com- + jacere to throw -- more at JET
Date: 14th century
1 obsolete a : interpretation of omens b : SUPPOSITION
2 a : inference from defective or presumptive evidence b : a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork c : a proposition (as in mathematics) before it has been proved or disproved