Columbia's Problems Began on Left Wing

NYT.com ^

[r9etb]

I have learned not to hold NASA in Awe... they are engineers that have learned to be politicians if they want to advance... (more so, the higher you go in paycheck amount) and not usually trustworthy. Goldin was the apex of this corollary

The real corollary, sir, is that you are full of shit.

[csvset]

apparently you do not understand If the ground crew had told the shuttle crew that their lives depended on a visual scan of the wing, they'd have improvised a way to have checked it.

They (mission control) had taken pictures (visual check) of previous missions using telescopes yet declined to do so in this case.

I'll stand by my assessment that mission control screwed up by not doing a visual check. Like I said in a earlier post , the debris impact may or may not have damaged the left wing.

Since they didn't bother to check it out to their utmost ability, it'll just have to be a question that naws on them while they lay awake at night. Action or lack thereof when other people's lives depend on what you do has it's consequences.

[John Jamieson]

Now, now guys lets not start the name calling. I thought we had a pretty good dilog going.

[OReilly]

...and do you have any substantiation for that remark other than the amount of you paycheck or former paycheck?

[jenny65]

Thanks for the info. I kind of figured it was a little too simple.

[alancarp]

This thread seems to be moderated by pro-NASA types... I heard the same press conference but the reason given for no concern was that they had no capability for in-orbit tile repair.

I admit to being fuzzy on this point: but NASA had *BETTER* not have thought that! I certainly hope, for all of the obvious reasons, that the decision was "we think this course of action involves an acceptable risk" -- and maybe secondarily "and that's a relief, 'cause we wouldn't know what to do anyway."

If it's truly the other way 'round, then people should be headed to jail for gross negligence. Risks of the job are one thing: you expect your support crew to minimize them, however.

For the record, I would call myself pro-NASA in terms of the space program. However, I wonder if they have once again gotten complacent in their own success. I think that given the possibility of catatrophic failure and loss of human life that at least a reasonable amount of effort should have been expended... we've had several ideas for that here in this forum -- and we're not exactly the experts.

[RckyRaCoCo]

It's too bad they didn't have a camera mounted atop the external fuel tank like on STS112 a little while back. May have provided them with more information.

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/video/shuttle/sts-112/html/fd1.html

[Centurion2000]

"Dittemore said that even if the astronauts had gone out on an emergency spacewalk, there was no way a spacewalker could have safely checked under the wings, which bear the brunt of heat re-entry and have reinforced protection.

That's a load of crap ... did they stop taking MMU (manned maneuvering units) for the spacesuits up with them ?

[OReilly]

The real corollary, sir, is that you are full of shit.

Do you think I am going to forget what the guys that did this the last time, did? Do you think you always should get the benefit of the doubt? Goldin was so Clintonesque, I lost all faith in the good faith of NASA Engineers.

[cynwoody]

Skynews website has a British scientist quoted as saying that NASA knew this ending was going to happen after finding out about the damaged tile, but couldn't do a damn thing about it.

Typical fourth estate BS. This crash occurred during the period of maximum dynamic stress on the ship. It will probably turn out to be structural failure caused by a heavy cargo load and spacecraft aging. The foam will likely turn out to be unrelated. Didn't early shuttle flights routinely come back with missing tiles?

If NASA had known the ship was in danger, they would have at least instructed the crew to dump the cargo and lighten the load. If they were convinced it wasn't coming back, they could have perhaps sent the Discovery up to rescue the crew and then made a probably futile attempt to auto pilot the Challenger back to Vandenberg (or some other destination where a breakup would occur over water).

[OReilly]

Typical fourth estate BS.

Typical NASA Group Think...

[John Jamieson]

How many men did Columbus lose? I agree we are sending too many humans up, experiments ought to be automatic. Much could be done with unmanned experiments and rockets.

A totally safe space program has never existed and probably never will. What reliability do you think is acceptable? 1 in a 100? 1 in a thousand? We never have created a new plane with killing somebody.

[aristeides]

Does anybody know why the load was so heavy? This was a flight to conduct scientific experiments, wasn't it? So was the load the gear needed for those experiments? If so, then, if the load was the problem, it would seem the plan was to conduct more experiments than was safe.

[OReilly]

All of your statements have been made by Non Auronautical Engineers, that were not on the NASA Defense team. Your only defense is that they didn't think there was a problem.

All the Defenders have said they couldn't lighten the load....etc.

[Centurion2000]

Might have been able to due a space rescue for a few people, but not 7. Time would have run out.

They couldn't prep a shuttle in a few days for launch ? How long would it take to get one of them ready and launched from a dead start ?

[Swordmaker]

I read somewhere that there's 26 miles or so of wiring inside a Shuttle. Think MacGyvering of a non-essential system ...

And ALL of that "non-essential" wiring is contained in wiring harnesses along with other essential systems... And very little of it is accessible without the facilities to do a major overhaul.

Ed White carried a little handheld jet on Gemini, connected via an umbilical and fueled from inside the spacecraft if I remember correctly. If you'll forgive me, this is not rocket science.

And if you recall, Ed White was tethered to his Gemini capsul by an umbilical cord that carried oxygen, climate control and power to his suit. MMUs provide more than just manueverability, they are also life support and heating/cooling units. Inspecting, much less repairing, the tiles is not a quick job and would require more time than would be allowed by a mere spacesuit plus little hand held jet.

With all due respect this really IS rocket science.

[alancarp]

Lemme change gears slightly: what I really wanna know is what Martin Marietta (sorry -- Lockheed/Martin, Denver plant I believe) has recently started doing differently with putting foam onto the external fuel tank such that it's starting to fall off.

(Yes, I'm proceeding under the leap of logic that falling foam damaged multple tiles in the same area of the left wing. And that, compounded by NASA managers discounting the potential harm, led to the tragedy).

[markman46]

Sorry guys, but columbia did not have a docking mech for ths ISS, and the ISS was in the the wrong position, this was a science mission only, and that is what the Spacehab is for.

[Mogger]

Is this the second time a school teacher was on a shuttle flight?

If I recall correctly, the FIRST schoolteacher in space was on the Challenger when it went down.

Now this perhaps the SECOND teacher in space?

Perhaps school teachers are just plain bad luck to have aboard.