City facility hosts nude pool parties for adults, kids

Ann Arbor News ^ | Jan. 16, 2003 | Chong W. Pyen

[AFA-Michigan]

City looks into rental of complex by group

A local nudist club's use of the Saline Recreation Complex for evening events, including nude swims, is raising eyebrows on the City Council.

The council on Monday discussed the propriety of renting the city-operated facility at 1866 Woodland Drive to the Southeast Michigan Naturists and asked for a staff report by Feb. 3. The club apparently has been renting the facility on occasion for several years, but council members said they just learned of it.

"I don't know of any city-owned facility, paid for with taxpayer money, state and federal grants, that allows swimming naked," said Council Member Rick Kuss. "My concerns are allowing children to participate, the possibility that this will open the door for people to open up a hot tub or massage parlor. I find this interesting when a local Girl Scout group came before us to use the facility, with additional requirements, and was basically turned down."

The club rented the facility from 7:30-11:30 p.m. Jan. 11 after the club's regular 6 p.m. closing time, and paid about $700 including the rental fee and the cost of a lifeguard and a building supervisor, said City Manager Larry Stoever. About 30 to 40 people participated in the event, he said. The next nude swim is scheduled for Feb. 8.

Kuss said he has many reservations about allowing the city facility to be used for naked swimming, volleyball, weight lifting and body massage, especially with children involved. He said he only recently learned about those activities, after a citizen complained.

One wall of the swimming pool has windows through which passers-by, including children, can see the activities inside, Kuss said.

Council Member Mary Hess said her 10-year-old grandson was barred from the pool last summer because he was wearing a pair of shorts instead of a swimsuit. She wondered why swimming naked is allowed, but not swimming in shorts.

Hess said the recreation center's regulations state that "swimming attire must be worn in the pool."

"It's a rule," she said. "When you rent the facility, you also rent the rules. I don't want children to see (naked) massage and hugging from the outside. We got so many children (being) taken advantage of on the Internet. Something is wrong."

Stoever said the naturist group started renting the city facility four years ago, three or four times a year, and there have been no complaints until now.

He said the group's first application to use the facility was reviewed by City Attorney Allan Grossman, who indicated that the city cannot discriminate against any particular group based on its philosophy.

As for swimming attire, Stoever said, the city rule does not apply to a private party paying for the exclusive use of the facility.

"This is a private group renting after hours. The public is not there," said Stoever. "When you rent your house for a banquet, they are entitled to the quiet enjoyment of the facility. We rent the facility to industries to have parties, and the facility is closed to the public. No one else is there."

Kurt Genova, who lives near the complex, wasn't aware of the club using the rec center until asked about it by a reporter.

"Are you kidding? Actually, I am shocked," he said. "I am definitely concerned."

Genova and his family - he has children ages 3 and 5 - lived on Middlewood Drive for five years before moving to a nearby neighborhood closer to the recreation center.

"I am not against it being rented out, but I don't approve of it being rented for that kind of activity," Genova said. "Doesn't the city of Saline have a choice? Several years ago, the neighborhood wasn't built up behind the rec center. Now, houses are in plain view of it. Doesn't the change make the city of Saline say no?"

Denny Burr, spokesman for the Southeast Michigan Naturists, said Wednesday night he was unaware of the controversy. He said his organization may issue a statement later after reviewing the council's discussion at Monday's meeting.

Founded in 1995, the club has 120 members and an Ann Arbor post office box, according to its Web site.

It describes itself as "an organization of clothing-optional enthusiasts, with a vision to "achieve a spirit of community, acceptance and happiness in life through naturism."

Its events allow "the fullest participation of all people, regardless of age and economic status, to live their naturist philosophy."

In 1998, the group held a nude swim party at the Ann Arbor Y, prompting letters to The News complaining about nudity.

[AFA-Michigan]

Please send an e-mail to members of the Saline City Council urging them to end these disturbing and risky parties at which adults congregate with children in the nude. Please copy and paste the following e-mail addresses into the "to" line of your e-mail:

pmartin@ci.saline.mi.us; mayor@ci.saline.mi.us; mhess@ci.saline.mi.us; plittle@ci.saline.mi.us; dgirbach@ci.saline.mi.us; aping@ci.saline.mi.us; rkuss@ci.saline.mi.us; cpyen@annarbornews.com; feedback@salinereporter.com; wxyzdesk@dtenow.com

[DAnconia55]

A local nudist club's

AFA-Michigan

3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou?

3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself.

3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou [wast] naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Your attacks against nakedness are unholy, according to what should be your own rationalizations.

[Objective Reality]

"I don't know of any city-owned facility, paid for with taxpayer money, state and federal grants, that allows swimming naked," said Council Member Rick Kuss. "

"Hippie Hollow," Austin, Texas. Longtime clothing optional city park. Also probably hundreds of clothing-optional public beaches nationwide. The Australians have pretty much nothing but clothing-optional public beaches, and they seem to do pretty okay. Yeah, it's a socialist state and all, but a considerably better place to live than, say, sub-Saharan Africa.

disturbing and risky parties at which adults congregate with children in the nude

Disturbing, granted, especially in the case of the very old and/or fat, but I don't know about risky, unless adults are going about openly pimping their children - in which case all concerned have much bigger problems. Difficult for me to get worked up over people engaging in legal activity at private gatherings.

But, hey, it's a republican representative democracy. If you can outvote the hippies and relegate them to gathering at private residences, by all means, outvote then. I'm certainly not going to go and take a contrary position against your own.

[thinktwice]

Much ado about nothing -- a new twist to a Shakespearian theme.

[Lurker]

Wow, kids and adults naked in the same place...

I hope they never come to my house, they might be offended.

L

[CindyDawg]

This is ok, but if your toddler goes outside naked or you take a picture with their backside showing a SW comes to invesigate or the police are called. Amazing

[Red Jones]

they shouldn't rent this place out to these people; and we shouldn't have any publicly owned property for nudists. Let the nudists do what they want on their own property. and even there they should be required to get licenses to have large gatherings of nudists.

[Coleus]

he was wearing a pair of shorts instead of a swimsuit>>>

Cotton fibers clogg up the filter strainers and wet shorts weigh a person down, especially nowadays with the very long shorts kids wear today, could be a safety hazard if he's a weak swimmer.

[Experiment 6-2-6]

Um, if the city doesn't want this, they shouldn't rent it out. Once you rent it, you give up a lot of say in what goes on..

As for nudists, I'm not sure there is such a connection between nudity and sexual abuse as you suggest..

[Clinging Bitterly]

If they're paying the rent, so what??
My wife and I do our skinny dipping in more remote settings (and usually at night), but we're sort of, uh, plain looking, not a couple likely to grace the pages of Como (know what I'm saying?).

I sort of admire those those folks who aren't afraid to be seen nekkid by other people. I wouldn't dream of it myself, yet I know we are born that way and there isn't really anything wrong with it. Clothing is one of the ways we adapt to our surroundings, but if the surroundings are comfortable enough without, there is really no need. When swimming, I find clothing to actually be a hindrance. If a group voluntarily chooses to gather their families together in this sort of activity, I say more power to them. If the prudish don't like it, they can just stay away.

Dave in Eugene

[Clinging Bitterly]

You describe your group as most other nudism groups describe themselves, and I don't see much there for people to get all het up about. The group in our area is called The Willamettans, after our major local river, the Willamette, and I'd guess, their all over suntans. I don't know if they are active year round, but they do own their own secluded acreage with indoor and outdoor recreation facilities and I think a bit of lodging I never have visited there but I hear it's quite nice - maybe I'll visit their next annual open house. Probably the best way to go, owning the property, to avoid a lot of the controversy, but not always a doable thing, as you are probably aware, so, as with other types of social clubs, it's customary and expected that those groups will rent suitable facilities, be they publicly owned recreation halls or what have you. I don't see any problem with that and I hope your group prevails in any contest of your right to do so.

By the way, welcome to FreeRepublic. I'm guessing that you learned of this story's presence here from some other source and decided to check out the discussion. This thread itself appears to be dead, but some browsing around will probably net some other topics that you might have something to say about, and I do hope you come back and weigh in on some of those things in which you are interested. Debate can be spirited at times, but most of us try to avoid getting personal and hurtful. I enjoy the time I spend here very much.

Dave in Eugene

[Admin Moderator]

To answer your question, we have a policy here that if a poster gets banned and manages to get around the system and re-register, when the new account is discovered it is immediately banned and all posts by the new account removed (so as to discourage the person from coming back).

The poster you asked about was a returning bannee.

Thanks, AM

[Clinging Bitterly]

Thought it might be something like that. Saw the posts on the other thread before they were deleted, schoolteacher and all. Figgered it might be the case, those posts were obviously from the other side, but I didn't think they alone were banning material. Thanks for the reply.

Dave in Eugene

[AFA-Michigan]

Uh, no, homosexual activities and violence on prime time tv are NOT acceptable. We do our best to address those issues as well.

[Notwithstanding]

The nudists convinced the council to approve their use of this facility.

Interestingly, they decided that the rules of the pool do not apply to groups that rent the facility.

Thus, there are now NO rules at the pool for groups that rent it.

Seriously. That is what they did to justify their silly action. Too afraid to grant a special waiver to the group outright - though that is precisely what the council did by virtue of its action. (4-3 vote)