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To: CyberCowboy777
I cannot prove God exist, nor can you prove He does not. Therefore we weigh the virtues of the ideologies based on those two assumptions. The one that works is given credence by proxy.

I would say that fails Occam's razor. You've invented a God to make your theory work.

Of course a God could be a foundation for an objective truth -- but until you can demonstrate his existance, it is just wishful thinking.

So how can you say one man is right and one is wrong? How can you build a society on that? A society with rules and regulations, one with laws against such actions as murder.

Well, quite clearly humans can organize around any concept, logical or not. So it isn't a question of how you can build a society around any concept -- many societies have been built around rather different philosophical concepts.

If you are asking me what sort of concept I would organize a society around, I would say it would be one of non-contradiction.

Aggression is a contradiction, a logical inconsistency. By aggressing you assert that it is okay to use violence -- hence you have just justified your victim's defense.

As a society we don't really care what motivates murderers or how to convince them not to murder -- since those who do usually go ahead and do it no matter what we say.

Instead we look to morality to find what WE may do in response -- and that is act in self-defense. The aggressor's action justifies the defense against it. To say otherwise is to grant the aggressor a superior status not in evidence.

Reciprocity, the Golden Rule, what have you. These are simple statements of non-contradiction, yet they are the fundamental justification for all responses (i.e. rules) to aggression.

No diety need be involked to see that I may rightly respond to acts of aggression by self-defense.

109 posted on 01/20/2003 11:24:55 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
You are advocating a base law of nature. You may respond to aggression, but you hold no moral superiority over the aggressor.

I may in all morality try to kill you for my gain (it is moral in my reasoning), you may in all morality protect yourself (it is moral in your reasoning).

Also your perception that the aggression was “wrong” in no way gives others the moral authority to lock the aggressor up if you fail.

If one was to say that when majority agrees upon an organized set of rules that is morality then who is to say that it is wrong when that same group decides it is moral to kill Jews?

Man cannot reason morality, by nature man is fallible and morality cannot be.

Many things cannot be proven without a doubt. We still base ideas, thoughts and institutions upon them though because they are the best we have.
112 posted on 01/20/2003 11:37:50 PM PST by CyberCowboy777 (Extremism in the Pursuit of Liberty is no Vice!)
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