[Stefan Stackhouse]

The real sleeper issue here isn't the UN, per se, but whether NATO can continue to exist as a mutual alliance after "No" votes by France and Germany.

[Irene Adler]

Interesting comment. Hadn't thought about that potential effect.

[Amelia]

“Realities tend to come in rather late,” this diplomat said of the administration. “They are thinking ‘We have the power, the will and the bases. Let’s do it ourselves.’ ” But he said he hoped the Americans were “beginning to realize that it’s all connected — the Mideast, Afghanistan, oil, Russia, China, North Korea, the economy.”

I suspect some of the countries who are most reluctant to back us in the Security Council might also be those who've been secretly, and in defiance of UN resolutions, shipping missile and other weapon parts to Iraq.

(And yes, I do suspect that there are countries on the Security Council that have been doing this, but I could be wrong.)

[Grampa Dave]

Besides making the UN irrelevant, making NATO irrelevant may have been an stealth goal of GW.

Since 9/11, it seems besides the UK, some of our best support in Europe has come from Spain/Portugal and Italy.

Before this war against Islamofascist Terrorism is over, we will see watershed changes in old alliances going down the drain and new alliances appearing on the scene.

[rintense]

I have this strange feeling that the real reason France and Germany will vote no is because they have been supplying Iraq with some military intelligence, in direct violation of the Gulf War treaty.

In any case, I say pull our troops out of Germany.

[LS]

NATO's time is over, and Bush is finishing it off by including everyone. No great loss at this point. W. Germany signed the NATO charter saying an "attack on one is an attack on all" but now isn't sending troops. So who needs 'em?

[concerned about politics]

The real sleeper issue here isn't the UN, per se, but whether NATO can continue to exist as a mutual alliance after "No" votes by France and Germany.

The muslim religious leaders have claimed France and Germany for the nation of Islam. Those 2 countries are so full of muslims, the leaders cower in fear of them.
So much for the glories of diversity.
France and Germany are now considerd Islamic countries and part of the Nation of Islam according to the muslim clerics.