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Going to the UN was a mistake. Not because I'm all gung-ho for war, but because its only purpose apparently is to protect third world dictators and communists from the consequences of their actions. If we have the evidence that Saddam is a clear and present danger to us, and that he works with terrorists to plot American deaths, then the rest of the world can stuff a sock in it. Going to the UN gives them power they do not deserve or have any moral right to exercise, being so morally fuzzy-headed.
1 posted on 01/19/2003 6:56:52 AM PST by Publius Maximus
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2 posted on 01/19/2003 6:58:33 AM PST by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: Publius Maximus
I disagree. While I do NOT think we need anyone's "approval" to do anything, it did not hurt to go to the UN---it a) bought us time, that we needed anyway, to get our troops in place. Now, instead of just waiting, it "looks" like the inspectors are "doing a job." All baloney, as you and I know; b) it gives the pretense (probably genuine in the case of the Bush admin.) of wanting to build a "coalition" and have the UN involved. In reality, this gave the UN one last chance to APPEAR to be relevant, and they are blowing it.

So I don't see the harm. We are doing what we were going to do anyway, and in the process proved the UN irrelevant and stupid. I'd say, that's a deal!

3 posted on 01/19/2003 7:01:11 AM PST by LS
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To: Publius Maximus
“It is much murkier and less clear-cut than it was in November,” one diplomat said.

I see, so America's resolve is murkier is what they say in fact. I did not know the UN believed in UFOs and other Unidentified Flying Saddam Objects all of sudden seeming OK after aggreeing with 50% of the demands. I DONT THINK SO.

It seems like we need to yet increase the pressure, maybe the truth will boil up ultimately, but do we have the time?

Why should we have to deny the truth longer about Saddam's horrors? Why should we have to deny the truth from existing in Iraq by keeping Saddam in power? This is ridiculous.

5 posted on 01/19/2003 7:08:33 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: Publius Maximus
I disagree. This is forcing the UN to either stand up or step aside.

This has yet to play out, but I think the real test for the UN will come when Bush calls on it to confron North Korea.

6 posted on 01/19/2003 7:09:09 AM PST by zarf (Pot doesn't smoke people; people smoke pot....)
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To: Publius Maximus
You have been here long enough to know not to post full text Washington Post articles.
7 posted on 01/19/2003 7:09:14 AM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: Publius Maximus
All Bush has succeeded in doing is giving the UN legitimacy.

If Hussein is such a direct and immediate threat, if he threatens the lives of AMERICANS, then take the guy out. Don't screw around with the UN, just take him out.

I recently had the opportunity to chat about American politics with a foreign exchange student from India. He said that every day that this drags on, it is making America look weaker in the international community. Had we been bold and forceful, people would have jumped on board.

Bush, imho, has long since dropped the ball on this one.

10 posted on 01/19/2003 7:16:07 AM PST by nonliberal (Taglines? We don't need no stinkin' taglines!)
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To: Publius Maximus
We don't need the UN for anything except political cover for an Iraqi invasion, and eventual peacekeeping duties after we pump out all of the oil.


BUMP

19 posted on 01/19/2003 7:43:57 AM PST by tm22721 (Those without a sword can still die upon it.)
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To: Publius Maximus
No guts, no glory.
20 posted on 01/19/2003 8:23:07 AM PST by latrans
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To: Publius Maximus
Actually support has grown from 65% in December to 67 percent! Fox News just had an opinon poll out!
24 posted on 01/19/2003 8:36:13 AM PST by areafiftyone (Hillary and Pelosi are Raelian clones)
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To: Publius Maximus
But that's the beauty. Bush gave them a chance to prove their worth. The UN has failed miserably. He warned them that the US was prepared to go it alone. And I'll bet that will happen- with GB and Australia joining us.

Bush has given the UN and the rest of the peaceniks everything they have asked for.

Now it's Bush's turn.

Iuck Fraq! Let's Roll!

27 posted on 01/19/2003 8:42:26 AM PST by rintense (Go Get 'Em, Dubya!)
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Attack on Iraq Betting Pool
37 posted on 01/19/2003 9:01:12 AM PST by Momaw Nadon
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To: Publius Maximus
So far, Bush has done almost everything he said he would do. He says we will go it alone if necessary. I suspect that he will not back down. So the UN can scream all they want, but if Bush is right, the Iraqi people themselves will be cheering U.S. soldiers soon, and the UN will look like idiots to complain about liberation and Arabs themselves welcoming the US. The shrill screaming is not because the dictators and leftists of the world think that we're wrong; it reflects the fact that they are afraid that the world will see that we are very right to have a war of liberation, making the world safe for western-style democracy.
38 posted on 01/19/2003 9:01:41 AM PST by Starrgaizr
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To: Publius Maximus
"and Saddam caved, the official said."

When did Saddam "cave"? What kind of idiot is this official? So far, Bush and Saddam are both hanging outgh and the issue is not yet joined.


"Cave" would be when Saddam leaves his palace FOR a cave.

Then we know Saddam "caved" - not before.

45 posted on 01/19/2003 9:15:59 AM PST by WOSG
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To: Publius Maximus
Initially I too felt that going to the U.N. was a mistake...

But absent the capability for a surprise attack, I now see that George needed time for planning and logistics...And as much as it sickens me, International politics is important in a war...We have to know where our bases will be safe...

And, although we are known as the Bully of the World, this "stall" may help us look like the compassionate Bully that we are...

IF this stall has allowed S.H. to move his "bad" weapons to Syria to hide them, conceivably they won't be able to be used on our boys and girls when this thing starts, at least this time...

The question for me is, if S.H. goes into exhile, how will we continue the effort amidst public opinion??? We need to go in whether he claims to be gone or not...
57 posted on 01/19/2003 9:40:32 AM PST by Iscool (it can be pretty painful, even if you're the winner)
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To: Publius Maximus
I agree totally, plus I'll add a point. On the U.N. Security Council, Syria is unfriendly to the U.S., China and Angola are generally unfriendly, and the majority of the other members play a double game. Only the U.K., Spain, Chile and Bulgaria are reliable friends, and of course only the U.K. is there for us as a significant military ally. With the exception of the U.K. and Israel, the nations of the world have reduced themselves to irrelevance due to their societies' unwillingness to fund militarily effective armed forces. Finally, realistically the U.S. will be the principal target of WMDs, because only the U.S. has the material and moral resources to oppose terrorism. Killing Germans, French, Canadians, Swedes and Swiss is pointless, because they are non-entities.

If countries like Germany, France and Japan are unwilling to contribute meaningfully to the collective defense, we should expect less of the rest of the world. These countries have nothing to offer us except conversation and unsolicited advice, nearly all of it bad.








59 posted on 01/19/2003 9:54:03 AM PST by Man of the Right
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To: Publius Maximus
”Going to the UN was a mistake. Not because I'm all gung-ho for war, but because its only purpose apparently is to protect third world dictators and communists from the consequences of their actions. ”

Wrong. Its purpose was to focus Saddam on courting the UN rather than building up his WMDs while we prepared to destroy him.

77 posted on 01/19/2003 11:22:58 AM PST by elfman2
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To: Publius Maximus
LINKS OF INTEREST:

FREEREPUBLIC.com- Discussion Thread - Topic: "PATRIOTS RALLY FOR AMERICA" (011803)

***WorldNetDaily.com: "INS READMITTING ARAB SCOFFLAWS High Risk Visitors Who Fail to Comply With New Anti-Terror Rules Let Back In" by Paul Sperry (January 17, 2003)

***ISLAM-ONLINE.net - News: "...TALIBAN REGROUPS" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "In a related development, Afghan government took steps Friday to tackle a reported regrouping of Taliban and al-Qaeda factions in the south of the country. Around 5,000 police have been sent to the southern town of Spin Boldak, near the border with Pakistan. Sources have told the BBC news online that some former Taliban activists are trying to re-group in the region. On Thursday, January 16, a humanitarian official said Taliban fighters are returning from Pakistan and regrouping around Spin Boldak. A growing number of Taliban fighters or former Taliban are gathering in the small frontier city, 600 kilometers southwest of the capital Kabul in the province of Kandahar, said the source, requesting anonymity. They were taking advantage of the porous border there.") (January 17, 2003)

FOX NEWS.com (AP): "REPORT: "KUWAITI SOLDIER PLOTTED TO POISON U.S. TROOPS" ((011803)

FOX NEWS.com (AP): "TWO U.S. PARATROOPERS HURT BY EXPLOSIVE-PACKED BICYCLE IN EASTER AFGHANISTAN" (January 18, 2003)

FOX NEWS.com (AP): "U.S. SOLDIER SHOT IN LEG IN WESTERN AFGHANISTAN" (January 17, 2003)

FOX NEWS (AP): "PAKISTAN ACCUSES AMERICAN DOCTOR, HIS FAMILY OF AL-QAEDA LINKS" (January 15, 2003)

***NY POST.com: "JFK AIRPORT BOMB PLOT" (011403)

MATERIAL BREACHES?!!

YAHOO! News.com (AP): "FOUR MORE WARHEADS FOUND IN IRAQ" by Hamza Hendawi (January 19, 2003)

***TALIBAN ONLINE - Posted by "She Taliban": "HAMAS WILL TAKE WAR OUTSIDE PALESTINE IF US ATTACKS IRAQ" by Nidal al-Mughrabi (January 18, 2003)

***An Interesting Discussion on FREEREPUBLIC.com regarding this article dated January 10, 2003 from THE INTERNATIONAL POLICY INSTITUTE FOR COUNTER-TERRORISM: "AL-QAIDA SUPPORTERS THREATEN NUCLEAR ATTACKS" (011803)

***BBC NEWS: "NEW IRAQ DOCUMENT FIND ALARMS UN" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The head of the United Nations atomic agency has voiced concern about documents apparently relating to nuclear technology which were found in an Iraqi scientist's home. The documents, numbering 3,000 pages, appear to focus on laser enrichment - a way to modify uranium for use in nuclear weapons - and were taken from the home of physicist Faleh Hassan on Thursday.") (011803)

WASHINGTON TIMES.com: "IRAQ SAID TO BE STASHING ARMS" by Rowan Scarborough (011703)

GOOGLE Search Term: "TIKRIT"

***An Informative Discussion on FREEREPUBLIC.com regarding a FRONTPAGE MAGAZINE.com article by Jonathan Schanzer, THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: "ANSAR AL-ISLAM: IRAQ'S AL-QAEDA CONNECTION" (January 17, 2003)

***AFTENPOSTEN.no: "USA WANTS NORWAY TO WATCH KREKAR" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Mullah Krekar has been, and likely remains, the leader of Ansar al-Islam, a fringe Islamic group in Iranian Kurdistan accused of having connections to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda terrorist network. The New York Times reported the connection last week after interviews with Ansa al-Islam members, and after finding documents in Afghanistan mentioning direct links to al-Qaeda.") (January 17, 2003)

***FOX NEWS.com: "INSPECTORS FIND CHEMICAL WARHEADS IN IRAQ" (January 16, 2003)

***FOX NEWS.com: "INSPECTORS WHISK AWAY IRAQI SCIENTIST" (January 16, 2003)

An Interesting and Informative Discussion on FREEREPUBLIC.com - Topic: "UN INSPECTORS FIND 12 EMPTY CHEMICAL WARHEADS --- Fox News Alert" (January 16, 2003)

PHOTO ESSAY and DISCUSSION (011703)

***ALBAWABA.com: "HAMAS GETS RPG LAUNCHERS, DEVELOPS ADVANCED VERSION OF QASSAM ROCKETS" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The Palestinian resistance group Hamas said Tuesday it has received a large number of rocket-propelled grenade launchers and has produced a new batch of an advanced version of its Qassam rockets.") (January 14, 2003)

***An Interesting Discussion on FREEREPUBLIC.com regarding a DebkaFile article: "ARAFAT'S NEW TERROR WEAPON: EXPLODING TOY PLANES" (January 14, 2003)

The Latest News regarding THE BENEVOLENCE INTERNATIONAL FOUNDATION

stepping back in time...FOX NEWS.com (AP): "ISLAMIC CHARITY HEAD CHARGED WITH FUNNELING FUNDS TO BIN LADEN" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "CHICAGO - The leader of a Chicago-area Islamic charity was indicted Wednesday on charges of funneling donations to Usama bin Laden's terrorist network, with Attorney General John Ashcroft vowing, "We will find the sources of terrorist blood money." Enaam M. Arnaout, 40, head of the Benevolence International Foundation, has been in federal custody since April.") (100902)

stepping back in time...US DOJ.gov: SPEECH (Prepared Remarks) by Attorney General John Ashcroft in Chicago, Illinois regarding Enaam Arnaout (100902)

***BUSH COUNTRY.org - Opinion Corner by Jeremy Reynalds: "TERRORIST GROUP'S TV STATION APPEALS FOR FUNDS FOR 'OPPRESSED PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.'" (COMMENTARY SNIPPET: "The radical terrorist group Hizballah, on the U.S. State Department's list of terrorist organizations, is raising funds for its activities on an associated web site apparently hosted by an American internet service provider. The web site is www.manartv.com, a Lebanese television station broadcasting by satellite, that is commonly considered to be a propaganda arm of the Hizballah.") (January 14, 2003)

stepping back in time...www.STATE.gov - U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT - "Background Information on Foreign Terrorist Organizations: "Hizballah (Party of God) a.k.a. Islamic Jihad, Islamic Jihad Organization, Revolutionary Justice Organization, Organization of the Oppressed on Earth, Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine, Organization of Right Against Wrong, Ansar Allah, Followers of the Prophet Muhammed" (October 8, 1999)

***FBI.gov: MOST WANTED - TERRORISTS: "ALI ATWA aliases: Ammar Mansour Bouslim, Hassan Rostom Salim" (WANTED POSTER SNIPPETS: "CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT AIRCRAFT PIRACY, TO COMMIT HOSTAGE TAKING, TO COMMIT AIR PIRACY RESULTING IN MURDER, TO INTERFERE WITH A FLIGHT CREW, TO PLACE A DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE ABOARD AN AIRCRAFT, TO HAVE EXPLOSIVE DEVICES ABOUT THE PERSON ON AN AIRCRAFT, AND TO ASSAULT PASSENGERS AND CREW; AIR PIRACY RESULTING IN MURDER; IR PIRACY; HOSTAGE TAKING; INTERFERENCE WITH FLIGHT CREW; AND PLACING EXPLOSIVES ABOARD AIRCRAFT; PLACING DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES ABOARD AIRCRAFT; ASSAULT ABOARD AIRCRAFT WITH INTENT TO HIJACK WITH A DANGEROUS WEAPON AND RESULTING IN SERIOUS BODILY INJURY; AIDING AND ABETTING"..."CAUTION Ali Atwa was indicted for his role and participation in the June 14, 1985, hijacking of a commercial airliner which resulted in the assault on various passengers and crew members, and the murder of one U.S. citizen. REWARD The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension and/or conviction of Ali Atwa. SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ARMED AND DANGEROUS")

***FBI.gov: MOST WANTED: TERRORISTS: "HASSAM IZZ AL-DIN aliases Ahmed Garbaya, Samir Salwwan, Sa-id" (MOST WANTED POSTER SNIPPETS: "Remarks: Izz-Al-Din is an alleged member of the terrorist organization, Lebanese Hizballah. He is thought to be in Lebanon. CAUTION Hasan Izz-Al-Din was indicted for his role in planning and participation in the June 14, 1985, hijacking of a commercial airliner which resulted in the assault on various passengers and crew members, and the murder of one U.S. citizen. REWARD The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension and/or conviction of Hasan Izz-Al-Din. SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ARMED AND DANGEROUS")

NATIONAL POST.com: "HAMILTON MAN ADMITS HE KNEW TERRORISTS" by Tom Blackwell (ARTICLE NOTE: The suspect is identified as Abdellah Ouzghar, age 38, a Moroccan-Canadian.) (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "An Ontario man convicted in France of belonging to an Islamic terror group said yesterday he made repeated social visits to the Montreal apartment where Ahmed Ressam and other Muslim extremists lived. Abdellah Ouzghar said he knew several Montreal residents who have since been found guilty of terrorist-related acts, including reputed ringleader Fateh Kamel. Ressam was found guilty of plotting to set off a huge bomb at the Los Angeles airport during millennium celebrations, and was arrested trying to cross the Canada-U.S. border in a car packed with explosives. "(011603)

***NATIONAL POST.com: "LEBANESE ENVOY OFFERS NO APOLOGIES" (ARTICLE NOTE: Raymond Baaklini is Lebanon's ambassador to to Canada.) (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The diplomatic dispute erupted after publication of an interview Mr. Baaklini gave to the Montreal-based Arabic-language newspaper Sada al Machric, in which he said the "Zionist movement" in Canada had the "number one role" in forcing Ottawa to outlaw Hezbollah. The Dec. 31 edition of the newspaper asked the ambassador for his response to the "unfair" policy on Hezbollah. "The most stubborn party benefiting from this subject is the Zionist party that exists in Canada," he was quoted as saying. "As you know this party controls 90% of the Canadian media. It takes instructions and help from many Zionist organizations either in Canada or abroad. Therefore, if we don't say the Zionist movement had the number two role, it had the number one role and America comes second." Mr. Graham indicated he may also personally speak with Mr. Baaklini to "set him straight" about the behaviour expected of foreign diplomats posted to Canada.")(011103)

NATIONAL POST.com ("A Part of Canada.com): "THE GOOD SON" by Isabel Vincent (ARTICLE SNIPPETS: "Omar Khadr: from Toronto's suburbs to bin Laden's army: 'Omar was always there for us,' says sister of teenager accused of killing U.S. soldier"..."Omar's father, Ahmed Khadr, is suspected of being one of Osama bin Laden's key lieutenants and a high-ranking member of the terrorist group Egyptian Islamic Jihad. He is hiding in rural Pakistan.") (122802)

CANADA.com - THE OTTAWA CITIZEN (THE MONTREAL GAZETTE): "CANADIAN ACTIVIST WON'T LEAVE WEST BANK" (ARTICLE NOTE: The "Canadian activist" is Jaggi Singh, age 29.) (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Mr. Singh said he also intends to visit the Jenin refugee camp or other areas of "Palestinian resistance."") (122702)

NATIONAL POST.com - Series: "In Case of Emergency": "A NUCLEAR BOMB ENTERS THE PORT" by Richard Foot (ARTICLE SNPPET: "The threat of terrorist acts against North America has not diminished since it was made real on Sept. 11, 2001. U.S. authorities have warned al-Qaeda may be planning "spectacular attacks," and Osama bin Laden has threatened that Canada will pay for supporting the United States. How ready are we to respond to an act of terrorism on our soil? Today, in the conclusion of a series exploring the state of Canada's preparedness, the National Post examines the potential for mayhem should a nuclear bomb be smuggled into the Port of Halifax.") (010603)

***THE STAR.com - THE TORONTO STAR (CANADIAN PRESS): Ottawa. "CANADA ALLOWS IMPORT OF BOMB BOOK" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The federal government has approved the importation of a book that gives detailed instructions for making bombs and blowing up bridges, the Ottawa Citizen reported yesterday. Even the author of The Anarchist Cookbook has renounced it as "misguided and potentially dangerous." But the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency says there is nothing to prevent its sale in Canada because it violates neither the hate law nor obscenity law, the newspaper reported.") (121502)

***FBI.gov: SEEKING INFORMATION: "AMER EL-MAATI" akas "Amro Badr Eldin Abou El-Maati, Amro Badr Abouelmaati" (SEEKING INFORMATION POSTER SNIPPET: "Amer El-Maati is being sought in connection with possible terrorist threats in the United States."..."SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ARMED AND DANGEROUS")

***FBI.gov: MOST WANTED TERRORISTS: "IMAD FAYEZ MUGNIYAH" aka "Hajj" (WANTED POSTER SNIPPETS: "Mugniyah is the alleged head of the security apparatus for the terrorist organization, Lebanese Hizballah."..."The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension and/or conviction of Imad Fayez Mugniyah."..."SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ARMED AND DANGEROUS")

PAK TODAY.com - PAKISTAN TODAY: "THE FRANCHISING OF HEZBOLLAH" by Avi Davis (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Western intelligence has now revealed a high level of cooperation between Bin Laden and Imad Muganiyeh, the Hezbullah terrorist who masterminded some of Hezbollah's most spectacular atrocities and kidnappings in Lebanon. Reports have Muganiyeh first meeting with Bin Laden as early as 1995 and those meetings have continued. More than this, since al-Qaida fled Afghanistan at the end of last year, the Sunday Telegraph reports, between 80 and 100 al- Qaida fighters were provided with false passports by Hezbollah before being relocated to southern Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Yemen. The same report acknowledges that Hezbollah, working hand in hand with al-Qaida, has set up cells in the Far East - including Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines and Singapore. It is well known that Hezbollah has operated in Gaza and the West Bank for years, but the recent revelation by the Shin Bet in Israel that al- Qaida has now also joined them there, is chilling evidence of a level of cooperation previously unsuspected. Such news comes as a dire warning to American, Israeli and Jewish communities throughout the world.") (122702)

ALBAWABA.com: "IS HIZBULLAH INVISIBLE LEADER INVOLVED IN ACTIVITIES IN CANADA?" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "In the United States, authorities believe that perhaps one of the world's most wanted men is behind the Canadian organization, which has raised funds, falsified documents and purchased military equipment for Hizbullah. In Washington, officials currently suspect that the agents sent to Canada to gather support for the Hizbullah work for Mugniyah, a top-level Hizbullah leader and the suspected mastermind of numerous attacks worldwide.") (120102)

***NATIONAL POST.com: "LEADING TERROR SUSPECT TIED TO CANADIAN CELL Imad Mugniyah: Academic Fears Operations Could Be Launched 'In and From' Canada" by Stewart Bell (111202)

88 posted on 01/19/2003 3:19:47 PM PST by Cindy
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To: Publius Maximus
I've seen this type of report before. On Oct 31 2002...
Russia, France, China Resist U.S. Demands on UN Iraq Resolution
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/779491/posts

but a week later on Nov 8th I saw...
SECURITY COUNCIL VOTES 15-0 TO ADOPT U.S. RESOLUTION ON IRAQ
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/785153/posts

Bush will either have the UN on board, or prove them irrelevent and act without them. This is what he has said all along. He has hoped the world would be with him, and they most likely will be at the started of the war or 5 minutes later, but he has stated over and over that he already has the authority to attack Iraq. He did this to the congress before they gave authority in writing on Oct 10th.

I have no doubt that if popular opinion is against the US, we will provide more proof and more arguments. When the attack comes there will be few that disagree.

There are over 100,000 troops on the way to Iraq, and more being announced almost daily. The signs for immenent attack are all around.
There is no way that Saddam is in power in March.
My Attack on Iraq Betting Pool entry is Feb 14th 7:00 pm central.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/741952/posts?page=621#621
The only way Saddam can survive this is to go into exile and I suspect that is not an option for other reasons not yet apparent to me.
100 posted on 01/19/2003 10:19:37 PM PST by Once-Ler (I vote Dubya)
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To: Publius Maximus
People believe that this enormous [U.S.] war machine makes the council and all its fevered machinations look ridiculous.

The council doesn't need any help from us to look ridiculous.

106 posted on 01/20/2003 6:34:50 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot
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