German sect accused of rape and cannibalism (HOLD MEIN BIER, GOTTERDAMMERUNG)

The Daily Telegraph ^ | January 16, 2003 | Kate Connolly

[MadIvan]

German authorities are investigating claims that members of an occult sect raped and murdered women and ate children in ritual ceremonies.

According to a regional state prosecutor, several people are being investigated "for numerous offences of sexual abuse with an occult background" over the past 15 years.

"We are aware of several perpetrators and witnesses who took part in black magic masses," a public prosecutor, Georg Jüngling, told the German television channel ZDF.

Horst Roos, the head public prosecutor in Trier, said the inquiry was launched eight months ago, after several witnesses approached the police. "These proceedings are dealing with a level of violence which is hardly imaginable," he said.

In a documentary shown on ZDF last night a woman whose parents were members of the sect described its alleged activities in horrific detail.

"Women were habitually raped by men while children were brutally murdered before being eaten," she said.

Frankfurt's public prosecutor, Peter Köhler, warned authorities against failing to believe the reports because of their "monstrosity".

[MadIvan]

15 years?!? Truly the land of "Hold Mein Bier".

Regards, Ivan

[MadIvan]

Bump!

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[Restorer]

We've had rumours of this type of thing in the US for decades. Maybe the Germans have finally caught them.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Lemme guess. No physical evidence, lots of wild tales told by "witnesses" and "victims", and a gullible self-important prosecutor "warning authorities against failing to believe the reports". Sure sounds familiar, don't it.

In the U.S., this crap went on for over a decade, and insurance companies were finally instrumental in stopping it, after they detected suspicious patterns of people in expensive (often residential) treatment suddenly being pronounced "well" just when their insurance ran out. Further investigation proved that these people had been talked into believing the wild stories by gullible and incompetent "therapists" who'd heard news reports like this one, and then "helped" their patients to "remember" that things like this had happened to them. The therapists were being egged on by the treatment facilities, who were among the largest financial beneficiaries of all this nonsense (closely followed by some evangelical churches that produced and sold videos and seminars to "educate" police, church and community groups about these "horrible Satanic cults"). And Geraldo Rivera and his ilk, who did sensational "documentaries" on the topic, never mentioning for a second that the lack of any physical evidence, anywhere, ever, made the whole thing highly improbable. Meanwhile police and judges started believing all the nonsense and condemning innocent people to long prison sentences based on the coached testimony of very young children.

It's really pretty scary that in the Internet age, when everybody has ready access to worldwide news, nonsense like this can reappear in another developed country and be taken seriously.

[friendly]

Absolutely true about the mass hysteria of the 1980's. Dade County, Florida's own Janet Reno was one of the horrific prosecutors in persecuting the innocent, when she wasn't being pulled over drunk as a skunk from her lesbian bar drinking nights.

[ccmay]

It's really pretty scary that in the Internet age, when everybody has ready access to worldwide news, nonsense like this can reappear in another developed country and be taken seriously.

I agree. What separates these chuckleheads from the Guatemalan villagers who beat an American tourist almost to death because they thought she had come to steal their children for organ transplants?

Part of the problem is that there is a certain subset of wackos in every society who secretly wish such tales were true, in order to further their own objectives or validate their own beliefs. "See? See? How could someone do such a thing if there were no such thing as Satan? Give me 10 percent of your money and I'll keep you safe from him."

Of course there are a very few solitary, mentally ill cannibals like Jeffrey Dahmer, but they don't join massive cults and start preschools to harvest babies' flesh for the Black Mass.

-ccm

[jocon307]

"Of course there are a very few solitary, mentally ill cannibals like Jeffrey Dahmer, but they don't join massive cults and start preschools to harvest babies' flesh for the Black Mass."

True, and let me add my own personal praise of Jeffrey Dahmer, he pled guilty. If only every guilty one would do the same. I always had some respect for him for that.

[Billthedrill]

And the next Harry Potter novel is due to be released next week. Coincidence? I think not...

(Ducking and running for cover...)

[John H K]

More than rumors...massive prosecutions for things that never happened. Was one in Texas, saw on Dateline NBC or some similar show last year...nutty fundie God-squadder group of prosecutors went out of control following up on the disappearance of a girl, started arresting people left and right (including a policeman) for supposed involvement in one of these baby-eating satanic cults.

[Bonaparte]

"...in Trier."

The oldest town in Germany. Also the birthplace of Karl Marx, a known sexual deviate and adulterer. Just some quaint factoids.

[Bonaparte]

Don't mean to interrupt your lynch party for "fundies," but the driving force behind the child abuse hysteria has always been radical feminism -- just in case you didn't know.

[struwwelpeter]

"You know, some baby-back ribs would go great with this."

[dfwgator]

I'll have what he's having.

[JimboUSofA]

"let me add my own personal praise of Jeffrey Dahmer, he pled guilty. If only every guilty one would do the same. I always had some respect for him for that."

WTF? There were frozen corpses in Dahmer's fridge. A confession was strictly academic.

[Podkayne]

It's a mystery to me why post-Christian Europe has so many bizarre social problems. Liberal crhistian democrats believe that secularism is truly the answer to all social ills. They the ones feasting on the "rotting corpse of Christianity" as described by the NEA.

[Restorer]

No dersire to puncture your bubble.

However, such things are indeed possible.

They DO happen regularly in Africa, India, the Caribbean and Mexico (and probably other places) as part of magical rituals. Things not greatly different WERE done in Germany 60 years ago.

I'm agnostic at present on the issue.

There have obviously been over-zealous prosecutors and drastic misuse of "recovered memories."

But the simple existence of falsehoods does not prove that all similar claims are equally untrue.

I'll wait for the evidence. Hopefully, they'll find bodies, pictures, documents, etc. (Actually, I really hope it's untrue.)

[GovernmentShrinker]

It's the lack of any mention of physical evidence by the prosecutor who'e begging people to "believe" that sets off my BS detector. Not to mention the fact there has never been ANY evidence provided of all the hundreds of similar claims in the U.S. in the 1980s and early '90s. Now and then there's and isolated incident of some disturbed individual or two doing something like this once or twice, but there's always physical evidence to prove it. NO claim of an organized group doing this sort of thing on an ongoing basis has EVER been verifed in the Western world, and many of the claims have been definitively disproven when the claimants stories fell apart with inconsistencies and scientific impossibilities (one claim that several people were caught in was that the lack of bones from all these alleged victims was due to bodies being burned to ashes in the ritual bonfires - but of course bones remain perfectly intact when burned under such conditions).

Of course some gory ritual stuff is common in primitive cultures, but there again, physical evidence abounds. There was, of course, no shortage of physical evidence in WWII era Germany either.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Both the satanic cult scaremongers (many of them evangelical Christians) and the radical feminist abuse scaremongers qualify as "fundies" in my book. Both groups are blinded by irrational emotion-driven beliefs and their own self-righteous arrogance, and both are dangerous to civilized society. They hate and denounce each other regularly, but they really belong to the same species.

[Restorer]

Well, there have been proven organized groups in Belgium and elsewhere in Western Europe involved in kidnapping, rape, torture and murder of children.

It's not a huge jump to tying these practices into ritual to gain power. A great many people in the West claim to believe in witchcraft and other occultic practices.

Although I'm sure you're right about this not having been proven at this time, I'm afraid it's only a matter of time till we do get physical evidence that it has happened.

It just ties together too many trends in our society.

Like you, however, I'm always worried when activists and prosecutors start talking about "believing the victims." That's usually a strong indicator they don't have any real evidence.