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To: Dan Day
"Aruanan's argument (and Van Flandern's, which is where Aruanan seems to have gotten his from) is not based on the motion of the Solar System as a whole, period."

That could be, but I'm not posting Aruanan's argument. Rather I'm posting my own (which happens to dovetail nicely with Newton's points on the matter).

And my own argument is that we KNOW for a scientific FACT that our Solar System is traveling through space. This fact means that our Sun is moving even though it APPEARS to be in the same place to an Earth-based observer.

Since the Sun is ACTUALLY moving, the 8.3 minute-old Light that we see from the Sun is actually always coming from the Sun's previous location. Thus, we "see" the Sun where it was located 8.3 minutes ago (i.e. the time it takes Light to travel from the Sun to the Earth) rather than where the Sun is ACTUALLY located.

My argument is further that if Gravity travels at the same speed as Light, that the orbits of the planets around the Sun will see that same 8.3 minute delay (which would give us a Solar System in which the orbits of the planets progressively "lagged" behind the actual movement of the Sun).

Yet since we see no "lag" in the orbits of the planets, we have to conclude that Gravity doesn't travel at the slower speed of Light, but rather that Gravity travels SUBSTANTIALLY faster than Light.

And this conclusion is verifiable by direct scientific observation. QED.

208 posted on 01/13/2003 10:54:20 PM PST by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
My argument is further that if Gravity travels at the same speed as Light, that the orbits of the planets around the Sun will see that same 8.3 minute delay (which would give us a Solar System in which the orbits of the planets progressively "lagged" behind the actual movement of the Sun).

Should read something along the lines of: that same 8.3 minute delay for Earth, longer delays for planets such as Jupiter that are even further (which would require Light or anything that traveled at the speed of Light to take even more time to reach) from the Sun...

209 posted on 01/13/2003 10:57:47 PM PST by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
Thus, we "see" the Sun where it was located 8.3 minutes ago [snip] And this conclusion is verifiable by direct scientific observation.

Horse manure. Document actual observations/measurements which have "verified" this by "direct scientific observation" (that should keep you busy for a while), or retract it. And stop trolling.

211 posted on 01/13/2003 11:48:43 PM PST by Dan Day
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