Posted on 01/03/2003 8:35:59 AM PST by RonF
Darrell Lambert is prepared for a long struggle with the Boy Scouts of America, one decided by public opinion and not by lawsuits.
The 19-year-old Eagle Scout, the subject of national attention after being booted out of the organization last month for being an atheist, doesn't think his recent appeal will reverse his situation. Not soon, anyway.
Darrell Lambert of Olalla, who was kicked out of the Boy Scouts for being an atheist, has appealed the decision. But he says he won't go to court. "I'd like them to realize it is the moral thing to do."
"I think eventually the Boy Scouts will change," the Olalla teen said yesterday. "It'll just take longer than I like."
Lambert, who earned 37 merit badges in 10 years and assisted in leading a Port Orchard troop, sent his appeal last week to the Scouts' Western Region office in Tempe, Ariz. His letter started a process that likely could take months to resolve.
...
"Legally, (the Scouts) have a right to discriminate," Lambert said at a presentation on the issue yesterday. "Morally, they don't. That's what I'm fighting. They can't teach good citizenship and practice bad citizenship."
(Excerpt) Read more at seattlepi.nwsource.com ...
What's the problem? There are many paths to God and each member of a relgion thinks their path is the correct one.
It isn't the BSA duty to teach the scouts about religion or God, that is the parents duty. It is only a BSA requirement that you recognise an obligation to God.
I think your picking nits.
Sez you. I'm sure many here will disagree (e.g. RightOnline and Kevin Curry but that's just speculation on my part).
...and each member of a relgion thinks their path is the correct one.
Of course or else they would not adhere to that religion. And BTW most people who believe in some sort of god are convinced that their god is not the same as that of any other religion.
It isn't the BSA duty to teach the scouts about religion or God, that is the parents duty.
Exactly.
It is only a BSA requirement that you recognise an obligation to God.
Why? And to which god? Note that God with a capital 'G' is synonymous with the Christian god (at least in Anglosaxon countries since other religions have their own proper name for their deities). And if you really want to start a flame war here on FreeRepublic, just start a thread where you claim that Allah is also God.
Finally, before I forget, if Islam isn't a religion of peace as so many here on FreeRepublic caim, why is it still OK for the BSA to admit Muslims?
I think your picking nits.
Uhm, I don't think pointing out inconsistencies is nit-picking.
Since arguing whether I am right or you are right as regards to picking nits, I think it is fruitless to continue the discussion. Adios.
What attack? I saw a statement that I was unsure on how to interpret, so I asked for clarification. I received it. I didn't attack anybody.
I don't attack people, either here on FR or elsewhere. I do confess that I despise sloppy thinking, though.
The BSA actually has a very specific moral code, not a relativist one. Here it is:
"On my honor I will do my best, to do my duty to God and my country, to obey the Scout Law, to help other people at all times, and to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight."
And:
"A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent."
The BSA is insistent on the above. Now, what is defined as your duty to God is between you and your God (youth members are expected, but not required, to seek the guidance of their parents or guardians and their religious leaders in this regard). But the SO and SL seem to be at least as specific as the moral codes set forth by most religions I am familiar with.
The BSA does not concern itself with the specific details of religious obligations, or the tenets or doctrines of the various religions of their members, as long as there's nothing that conflicts with the SO and SL. There's been no conflict yet, and I don't think they expect one.
Remember this statement of yours?
Yeah, well stud.......tell it to the Big "G" God, won't ya? Straighten Him out. Go ahead. I'll watch.
If you are so upset by people making mildly insulting remarks about your religion, first try showing it a little respect yourself. Inviting me to slug it out with the big "G", verbally or otherwise, was provacative. Your statement was bait for me to insult your religion...and stupid me, I fell for it. But your outrage when I responded in kind strikes me as extrememly phoney and hypocritical.
If you don't subscribe to a belief in God.....let alone a belief in the deity of Jesus Christ.........then maybe it sails right over your head what a nerve one strikes when belittling a man's religion. It's akin to walking up to me and calling my wife a whore. I'd kick your ass on the spot and make you rue the day you ever saw me if you did that......and you wouldn't expect any less.
A simple question for you. What would Jesus Do? My guess is that the LAST thing he would do would be to "kick someone's ass" on the spot. Again, if you hold your religion so nearly and dearly, try living it. Be an ambassador, an example to those whose hearts and minds you'd like to change.
So the Big "G" God RightOnline is talking about must be the Big "G" God in the BSA oath. Oh no, wait, it can't or else those who believe in an other god (not the Big "G" one) can't join.
Dang, now I'm really confused.
Me too. But, I'm going to leave RightOnline alone as he has suffered enough self-inflicted punishment on this thread.
BSA would kick out a clean livin', dog lovin', scuba divin', mild manored, hard workin', multi-talented, clear thinkin', fun lovin' ironman triathlete kind of guy for simply NOT having a belief in a deity.....but let in any manner of undesirable theist.
But I've already stated that I'd be willing to convert to Deism if I chose to participate in BSA. They just don't want anyone challenging them on their official stance. Don't create waves and they'll let you in the club. But at this time, I have way too many other things going on to even consider participating.
Yep. True enough. Although belief in a deity is not required; Buddhists are welcome, for example. But belief in some kind of supernatural plane is required.
.....but let in any manner of undesirable theist.
Depends on what makes that theist undesirable. If he or she is in violation of the Scout Law or Scout Oath, then no, they're not wanted. Not to mention if they should have a criminal record, etc.
What does gender preference have to do with my posts and the topic of this thread? How many, if any, religious scouts were converted to atheism by Darrell Lambert? How many religious scouts changed religions by being exposed to other scout's religions? If you are truly hooked on religion, then religion teaches tolerance. The Boy scouts should be concerned with morals, not with religion.
Shortly before becoming of age to join the boy scouts, my family moved and parents got divorced. I lived with my mother following the divorce and saw my father on Saturdays. So, after my parents divorce, the scoutmasters were very important role models for me, as much or more than my own father. The other scouts became my best friends. I'm extremely grateful for what scouting did for me. Through scouting, I became a competent outdoorsman and tested my limits. I learned how to cook, albeit some by trial and error. (Lesson learned: Wait for the water to boil BEFORE adding spaghetti noodles, unless you wish to create an inedible gluey glob.) Best of all, scouting was very affordable at a time when mom couldn't afford a lot of extras. Scouting has been very good to me.
The troop I belonged to accepted a skinny, insecure kid who was overwhelmed with personal family problems and showed him some terrific experiences to build his self-confidence and self-esteem. I really hope they are still that kind of organization.
IMHO this young man is probably the pawn of leftist trouble-makers. Given time, out of the public spotlight, at age 19, he just might find a re-awakening and re-birth of faith. He sounds to me sincere, but misguided. There is hope.
You're greatly confused, Jimer. Most religions teach tolerance for others' beliefs. But each religion believes it is right with regard to its understanding of God and the universe and of morals. You say the Boy Scouts should be concerned with morals, not with religion. I say, the Boy Scouts has its rights as a private association to put its focus anywhere it wants. If you don't like what Boy Scouts puts its focus on, don't send your sons there! Finally, there is an idea that goes with religion (and with Boy Scouts, inherently), that morals come from God. Atheists can make up any morals they want. The morals that Boy Scouts wants to teach can easily be in conflict with the morals atheists concoct for themselves. This is part of the argument Boy Scouts makes with regard to homosexual conduct, which it believes (in accordance with most major religions) is immoral. Atheists can make up whatever sexual morality they want (just like any other kind of morality). At the end of the day, you have no business telling the Boy Scouts what they should do. It's up to them. You can form your own organization any time you want.
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