Better bullets also will help, experts say

Stars and Stripes ^ | 20 December 2002 | Mark Oliva

[The KG9 Kid]

Never heard of it. The only changes to the A2 model AUG over the A1 was a different charging handle and a roller on the top rear of the bolt carrier.

Same barrels, it seems. I can't tell the difference. The gas piston cylinder assembly is extremely beefy.

If there was a problem with the AUG's gas system, I believe that I may have heard of it by now.

[XBob]

40-"I've heard that same talk, but can you imagine the cost and logistical nightmare of rebarreling a couple million M16's? And the military has a sizable investment in 5.56 ammo. What would they do with it? I can only shoot so much, y'know!"

From what I have heard, this may be a moot point. It seems to me, (please correct me if I am wrong), but I thought that about a year or so ago they changed the rules on veterans funerals because there were not enough riflemen in the US military to attend funerals, only 17,000 or so, in the whole military.

[harpseal]

RE the .308 vs 5.56 argument mission, and terrain determine equipment and tactics. Both the M14 and the M16 can be ean excellent choice. In a desert with plenty of resupply I might prefer a .308 (7.62 X 51) over a .233 (5.56 X 45). In a jungle or urban envirornment with close range fire and no easy re-suply I might well prefer a .223 cal

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[RLK]

"Secondly, I have always questioned the use of hardball ammo for combat." The Hague Convention. We don't use nerve gas either.

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Certainly, using a soft point in a 30-06 or .308 would nearly explode the target. What the .223 attempts to do is get around the dum-dum prohibition with a tumbling action.

[sneakypete]

I think the problem is the 62 grain penetrator round, versus the old 55 grain FMJ.

I agree. The trade off is that the newer 62 gr round is more accurate at long range.

[boris]

When shooting ragheads, aim for the head. If enemy is wearing a helmet, aim low.

--Boris

[SBprone]

Sorry, wrong gun. I was thinking of the Enfield SA-80. That one is one mean bullpup!

[SBprone]

"RE the .308 vs 5.56 argument mission, and terrain determine equipment and tactics."

Absolutely!

A new 7.62mm rifle should be found to replace the dwindling stock of M14s. All that has been learned in using and maintaining the M14s should be put to use in selecting a new weapon. Maybe something like a modernized AR10. It should be a special purpose weapon, for when 5.56mm just ain't enough. For everything else, there's the M16 family.

[Pagey]

An "I love these weapon threads and learn much from them" BUMP!

[Shooter 2.5]

6.5 X 52 Italian[Mannlicher-Carcano]
162 Grain Round Nosed Bullet
2296 FPS
"Cartridges of the World" calls it a good deer, antelope or Black Bear cartidge.

The 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser is a much better Cartridge.

[Blood of Tyrants]

No, the M1 carbine was developed as a light rifle for rear lines people who would rarely if ever see action.

[RogueIsland]

I would have thought the fatality rate inflicted by the Beltway sniper would have finally put to rest the canard about the impotence of the .223 round against human beings. Ah well, some debates never end.

[SBprone]

It's a meat chopper all right! But just as a particular combination of bullet and barrel twist rate can make a devastating weapon, the wrong combination can render the weapon less effective.

The current M855 cartridge sounds like it is poorly suited for fighting in Afganistan. The old M193 from the Vietnam era might be a better choice. The cheap ball ammo at your local gun shop is essentially the same thing as M193. Maybe we should chip in and send a couple of pallets to Afganistan. God knows they have to buy a lot of their own gear as it is.

Let me try to clear up one thing: The modern M855 round combined with the current faster barrel twist has greatly extended the effective range of the US service rifle. I don't think range is the issue here because there are any number of weapons such as heavy machine guns, mortars and precision bombs for dealing with folks who are hundreds of meters distant. I think the problem with the M855 is its effectiveness as a defensive round at relatively short distances. That's where you want to stop somebody in their tracks.