Posted on 12/19/2002 8:20:59 AM PST by Zviadist
This country is the second largest supplier of oil to the US. What happens there affects us. It's kinda like not dealing with North Korea building nukes because that's their business. Maybe we should just butt out of the Israeli-palastinian conflict because it's none of our business. Our national interests are economic stablity, security and freedom. Where do you draw the line?
In the past, isolationism worked well. Unfortunately, technology has changed that.
Here's a clue: it's their oil. Or don't you believe in the principle of private property and ownership?
Interesting point, and just backs my assertion that Chavez, whatever his faults, has been remarkably restrained in dealing with a mob of people who expressly desire to overthrow his government. Again: what would Bush, Ashcroft, etc do if half a million came to Washington with the explicit goal of overthrowing the elected governement?
Now, would you take money from the foreign government or organisation to oppose Clinton, when he was President? Or to oppose Gore during the last presidential elections? Would you?
Weren't the Soviets interferring in East Europe after 1947, and since 1945, in fact? Wouldn't it have been nice if someone had interferred before 1942? It seems to me you just defeated your own argument while inadvertantly explaining why we need to interfer ion Venezuela.
By the way, is that you, Pat Buchanan??
Well stated!! I would like to see every supporter of our meddling to answer this question. I am sure they won't.
What on earth are you talking about? If you know anything about the history of the 20th century you would understand that I was referring to Hitler's meddling in the internal politics of East Europe before 1942 to get his allies in power and to the Soviet meddling in East European elections from 1946 to 1948, manipulating the ballot to get pro-Soviet governments in Hungary, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, etc.
Do you remember the Million Man March? Though the numbers were overstated do you doubt for a minute that was the underlying and unstated goal of those leftists and useful idiots?
No. They were distasteful to my perspective, but they did not explicitly seek to overthrow the government. There is a difference between protest and coup.
Excellent point. I am sure everyone here supporting the rebels and strikers supported Bush's decision to break the dock strike, and supported Reagan's breaking of the air traffic controllers strike. No consistency. Only emotionalism.
Sound familiar? Isn't this what the US is founded on??
Having lived through most of it, I understand a little about 20th century history but I must confess that since your rant was basically anti-U.S. involvement in others' affairs I did not understand that you were referring to Hitler and Stalin, thinking instead that you were still referring to us. As to what seems to be your main point, that no country should interfere in the internal politics of another, I see a lot of similarity with the position of pacifists. Despots love pacifists as enemies because of their naiveté and ease of dispatch. It is impossible in today's world of rapid transport to stay out of the affairs of others because others will invariably become involved in yours. If that is through friendly relations and trade, fine. If it is through a desire to overthrow your government and destroy you then it is bad, for you.
Anticipating that you will take my statements and use them to explain to me that that is exactly the way others feel about our interfering in their affairs, I will pre-respond. Most leftists governments, probably all, who come into power illegitimately, as Chavez did regardless of outward appearances, have expansionists ambitions. Chavez's embrace of other Communists dictators reveals his ambitions. Therefore, he intends harm to true freedom loving counties and it is best to deal with him early rather than after he has entrenched himself beyond easy removal, like Saddam.
Is it right, moral, ethical, etc.? Yes, because it brings the greatest good to the most people by preventing great harm to them. We are the ones who must do it because we are the biggest, baddest kid on the block. Is that good? Yes, because we are good.
Absolutely. And we have a constitutional process to achieve this. We saw it in process during the impeachment. We didn't overthrow the Clinton administration by force. Your point is?
Why are you commenting on this thread if you have no idea how Chavez was elected to power? The elections were declared free and fair by both domestic and international monitors.
"illegitimately", "regardless of outward appearances", "expansionists ambitions"? Could you elaborate, please?
And you are? Obviously not, considering what you posted. So what makes you any better than them?
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