Critics Say Missile Defense System Unworkable

Reuters via NYTimes.com ^ | 12/17/2002

[elbucko]

That's an item of personal interest, having lived a few blocks away, long ago, from a Nike base....

If they were "Herc's", you were in the atomic age and didn't know it.
(shhhhhhh, Martin Sheen might find out he lived by them too)

[Poohbah]

Nike-Zeus later became known as Nike-X, and then Spartan.

Wags insisted that Spartan was really an acronym:

Superior Performance And Range Through Advanced Nomenclature.

[Poohbah]

Sounds like you've read B. Bruce-Briggs' The Shield of Faith. A very useful reference book. ANd he's very witty, too.

[elbucko]

I guess the Wright Brothers should never have wasted their time.

Timely post. It is the 99th. Anniversary of the Wright's flight at Kitty Hawk, today the 17th. of December, 2002.

[Archangelsk]

Any aerospace engineers here who are working on telemetry and vector issues on this thing. I'd really like to know, in generic and unclassified terms, some of the difficulties involved.

[elbucko]

Wags insisted that Spartan was really an acronym:..

There is an element of truth in your post. The Zeus was killed on the drawing board. The efforts of a few to keep it alive turned into only comical PR.

However, had the Zeus, Sprint and other missile intercept systems that were aborted, been developed, at least experimentally, the NYT article above would not have been written.

[Poohbah]

Spartan and Sprint were actually deployed operationally.

There were some semi-serious problems with the Safeguard system--the biggest being that 100 interceptors had to cope with thousands of warheads.

If MIRV technology had simply proved too unreliable for operational use, terminal-phase ABM might have been a bit more cost-effective.

[elbucko]

Sounds like you've read B. Bruce-Briggs' The Shield of Faith.

No, actually I haven't, but I'll find a copy. When the Army closed its CONUS Air Defense Command, I left and didn't look back. The Nike stuff I know is from memory. I am amazed, though, at the info on the Internet. In my time it was all mostly, "SECRET". Now it's public domain.

[Poohbah]

You might be interested in some of the VCE nuclear weapons movies. Good music, interesting film footage of nuclear tests, not heavy on the polemics.

[RJL]

The system is intended to protect the United States against long-range enemy missiles. But there have been three failures in the eight major tests involving attempts to shoot down a long-range dummy warhead in space over the Pacific Ocean, including the most recent test on Dec. 11."

This is a 62.5% success rate. AIDS drugs are successful nowhere near 62.5% of the time. Would the NYT now suggest that we quit using or developing drugs to help those infected with aids?

I doubt it.

[Poohbah]

Also, the test failures happened early on. The recent tests have gone smashingly well.

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

THEL is a key program. If directed energy weapon systems mature as I hope they can in the next 5 years, and with proper tracking systems to boot, you won't need 'kill vehicles' such as the one that failed last week. A ground-based laser platform could do the job.

Then, the bastards couldn't build nukes fast enough to ever reach the point where they could overwhelm this defense, as we can build lasers faster then they can build nukes.

[elbucko]

Spartan and Sprint were actually deployed operationally.

I didn't know that. It must have been a sparse coverage. I did participate on some tests of Sprint, but by then the Army was undergoing changes from a conscription service to the volunteer.

I do know some Patriot crewman from those days. It was called SAM-D then. I am glad it was saved, but its performance in the Gulf is not a surprise to me.

[cornelis]

Interesting.

[dighton]

If they were "Herc's", you were in the atomic age and didn't know it.

Since I'm not Martin Sheen, cool!

[Lancey Howard]

"Ruth made a big mistake when he gave up pitching."
- Tris Speaker, 1918.

[elbucko]

You might be interested in some of the VCE nuclear weapons movies.

I hate to post my ignorance (knowingly) but what is the acronym, "VCE"?

I did, however get to see some interesting movies while at Air Defense as officer cadet. Mostly from WWII.

[Poohbah]

I didn't know that. It must have been a sparse coverage.

100 interceptors total--70 Spartan, 30 Sprint--deployed at Grand Forks AFB, North Dakota. There was going to be a second site at Malmstrom AFB, in Montana. It got cancelled in the wake of the ABM Treaty.

It was never intended to be a nationwide coverage, just coverage for the ICBM sites around Grand Forks, Minot, and Ellsworth.

[Poohbah]

VCE is the company marketing this stuff.

Two of their titles are "Trinity and Beyond" (nuclear tests from 1945-1962, along with the first Chinese nuclear test in 1964), and "Nuclear 911" (film footage of nuclear weapons-related mishaps and the response to those mishaps.)

Do a Google on the titles, you'll find 'em.

[mikenola]

This article reeks of a tone I've heard often from liberal friends: "if ain't perfect , better not do it". Heck, it's only nuking a major American city we're talking about, right? Better not do it, 0% chance is better than 62% right?

Now, when I point out the abysmal rate of sucess of liberal social programs -- welfare deepening not reducing poverty, needle-exchange increasing drug dependency, then , well, "we just need to keep working harder at it" .

Ignorant boobs.