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RIAA Goes After the Little Guy
wired news ^ | Dec. 16, 2002 | Associated Press

Posted on 12/17/2002 11:59:18 AM PST by freepatriot32

Edited on 06/29/2004 7:09:34 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

WASHINGTON -- An antipiracy campaign by the recording industry is threatening lawsuits to try to force stores to pull pirated music from their shelves.

The Recording Industry Association of America said Monday it is demanding a halt to illegal music sales at gas stations, convenience stores, groceries and some small music stores that the group has identified as offering illegal copies of music recordings.


(Excerpt) Read more at wired.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: bigmedia; bootlegs; copyright; dmca; music; musicpiracy; riaa; stores
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To: weegee
The money may have gone to some copyright owners but there was no way to determine just what (if any) rights had been violated to warrant such payment.

Old Time Radio is public domain and swaped on tape. Shade tree musicians who play at home on weekends tape (and even distribute) their own music.

Indie labels also never see a cut of that money.

The RIAA is about collecting money for the beast. If you want your share, you need to go to them with your own lawyers...

I honestly don't know what you're talking about. The AHRA acknowledged that some forms of home taping were infringing (you can't be seriously arguing that none are?) and assessed the tax to attempt to redress that infringement.

Indie labels do see a cut of that money, because it is collected by an independent body and not the RIAA.

61 posted on 12/17/2002 9:19:45 PM PST by FastNBulbous
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To: rwfromkansas
I could go on Amazon.com right now and get used CD's. The RIAA thugs aren't getting a cent, luckily.

What exactly does this have to do with anything? Once you've bought a CD, you have the right, by law, to sell it to whomever you want. At least a royalty was collected on the first sale. Lots of people are grabbing music files on P2P networks just to avoid even the first sale, directly depriving the artist of the possibility of realizing that royalty.

62 posted on 12/17/2002 9:24:40 PM PST by FastNBulbous
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Bravo!

You'd think that on a conversative board like this one, more people would grasp concepts like supply and demand, prices and markets.

If the price was too high, absolutely no one would be paying it...just like you said.

63 posted on 12/17/2002 9:29:14 PM PST by FastNBulbous
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To: FastNBulbous
FastNBulbous, you beat me to the punch. After reading through this thread and countless others like it here and on other "conservative" boards, I sit astounded that people who claim to lean right are so blind on this issue. The contempt for property rights is remarkable, and sad.

Additionally, that any conservative would even think about buying into the concept of "overpriced" makes me scratch my head. There's no such thing as "overpriced." Prices are simply a reflection of the settled value of a good as determined by buyer and seller. By definition, something cannot be "overpriced."

If you do not value a given CD as much as you value the $15 in your pocket... then, there you go. What else is there to explain about it?

It certainly doesn't provide you the justification to then run to Kazaa and take the music for free.
64 posted on 12/17/2002 9:41:02 PM PST by wizzler
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To: FastNBulbous
Somebody paid for the music initially, just as a library pays for a book before everyone shares it.
65 posted on 12/17/2002 9:54:55 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: rwfromkansas
A library is a piracy outlet. Just like with Kazaa, someone initially pays for a product before it is given out for free to all.

This is a common misconception, one that's often forwarded by those who don't have a basic understanding of copyright. (The other standard version of this flawed analogy uses the neighborhood video rental store as its example.)

The library is not a piracy outlet. The library owns licensed copies of media. When you borrow a compact disc from the library, you are borrowing a single, authorized copy of the songs on it. It doesn't matter if the library lends it to 100,000 people -- there remains just that single licensed copy, lawfully acquired.

When you download a song on Kazaa, you are creating a new copy that you have not been licensed to own. When 100,000 people download the song, then 100,000 unlicensed copies now exist.

If you want to analogize the public library and Kazaa, here's how you have to do it: Pretend that the library buys a CD, then burns 100,000 copies of it and hands those out. This doesn't happen, of course, because it is illegal. But it happens every day on Kazaa.

66 posted on 12/17/2002 10:07:19 PM PST by wizzler
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To: wizzler
True. How much more does it cost libraries to buy a book than the average person?
67 posted on 12/17/2002 10:11:44 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: rwfromkansas
How much more does it cost libraries to buy a book than the average person?

I have no idea. What would be the relevance anyway?

68 posted on 12/17/2002 10:13:49 PM PST by wizzler
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To: wizzler
If it does not cost them more for a book, enough to compensate for all the people that borrow it per year, then it is not fair and just compensation. If so, a library IS like Kazaa.
69 posted on 12/17/2002 10:39:46 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: rwfromkansas
If it does not cost them more for a book, enough to compensate for all the people that borrow it per year, then it is not fair and just compensation. If so, a library IS like Kazaa.

Huh? Why did you bother to say "true" in your previous post if you still don't get it?

The issue is not the number of people who borrow a book or CD; it's about the number of copies of a book or CD. (And it's not about "compensation" in the first place. You're getting thrown off by that.)

The issue is copyright -- the right to copy. That right remains in the hands of the copyright holder. As I spelled out in my previous example, the library is not infringing copyright by loaning a CD. It would be infringing copyright only if it copied that CD.

Surely this is not that difficult to understand.

70 posted on 12/17/2002 10:54:36 PM PST by wizzler
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To: FastNBulbous
There is absolutely no way to know how to slice the pie for "lost" revenue. Hometown indie labels, modest indie labels, and foreign labels cannot figure significantly in that equation. Yet those who take up tuvan throat singing (like Jet Airliner author Paul Pena) definitely thrived on "copied" tapes for source material to learn from.
71 posted on 12/18/2002 1:41:21 AM PST by weegee
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To: wizzler
How much more does it cost libraries to buy a book than the average person?

I have no idea. What would be the relevance anyway?

What is the relevance of paying Microsoft a license fee to run Software package "X" on 50 computers?

More users...more money up front.

72 posted on 12/18/2002 5:39:31 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: FastNBulbous
Bravo!

You'd think that on a conversative board like this one, more people would grasp concepts like supply and demand, prices and markets.

If the price was too high, absolutely no one would be paying it...just like you said.

Do you live in a universe where supply and demand, prices and markets follow quantum rules?

73 posted on 12/18/2002 2:48:12 PM PST by Moonman62
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To: Moonman62
Do you live in a universe where supply and demand, prices and markets follow quantum rules?

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure what you're getting at with your question, so let me ask one of my own:

Do you disagree with the proposition that if the price of CDs were really "too high," sales would plummet at a much higher rate than they have been?

It's also evident that elasticity comes into play in the market for CDs: They (and other entertainment products) are relatively inelastic since consumption has never been observed to increase with a corresponding price decrease.

74 posted on 12/19/2002 1:44:46 PM PST by FastNBulbous
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To: FastNBulbous
Do you disagree with the proposition that if the price of CDs were really "too high," sales would plummet at a much higher rate than they have been?

It's also evident that elasticity comes into play in the market for CDs: They (and other entertainment products) are relatively inelastic since consumption has never been observed to increase with a corresponding price decrease.

But the market has changed. The capacity for storing and managing songs has greatly increased, as well as the speed at which those songs can be obtained. It would make sense that people would be interested in buying more songs in such an environment. The music industry's business model is still based on the Victrola.

75 posted on 12/19/2002 4:36:11 PM PST by Moonman62
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To: Moonman62
We're arguing past each other now. I don't disagree that the market has change and the record industry has to change.

The contention, however, was over whether CDs were overpriced...and it's clear that they're not, because there's still a vibrant (though perhaps waning) market for them.

You cannot say that Ferraris are overpriced, for instance, even though relatively few people buy them.

76 posted on 12/19/2002 10:54:23 PM PST by FastNBulbous
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