S.C. historian has praise for Grant

Charlotte dot com ^ | Dec. 08, 2002 | BRUCE SMITH

[stainlessbanner]

So what did you expect from a Harvard grad?

[stainlessbanner]

"He was actually a master of maneuver. He never made attacks unless he felt he had a reasonable chance of succeeding."

Acutally, the only thing Grant could master is the bottle. Grant had the luxury of waiting, superior numbers, supply lines, etc. Rea's is a flawed comparison.

[bagman]

While I yield to no one in my admiration for Marse Robert, I am coming to the conclusion that Grant was one of the most skillful generals of the War of Northern Agression. His most rabid critic mus admit that the Vicksburg Campaign of May - July, 1863 was a masterpiece, especially the manuevering to Jackson and back to Vicksburg.

We do no dishonor to General Lee if we admit that Grant was a masterful general.

[stevem]

Actually, I've been saying for many years that Grant never seemed to get the credit he deserved in prosecuting that war. The argument whether it was Grant or Lee who was the more accomplished general will wage forever and mean nothing. They were both fine leaders in there own way.

The idea of "Grant, the Butcher" was always nonsense. His predecessors expended 100,000 soldiers and accomplished nothing. Grant expended 60,000 and won.

If you look at Grant's participation in that war from the beginning, every place he went an unmistakable aura of competence permeated the ground. It's always been my impression that the US has produced some great warriors in its history. I don't think Grant needs to take a back seat to any of them.

[Dog Gone]

Grant did fine as a General. It's not hard to compare him to other Generals in the same army who were utter failures, like Joseph Hooker.

However, he was the worst President we had for 100 years until we elected Carter.

[SamKeck]

So what did you expect from a Harvard grad?

Personally, I think the guy has got a valid point of view. Without herein refighting the entire campaign, Grant's determination to hold on to Lee's belt buckle, to continually flank to his < Grant's> left, and then to pin Lee into a defensive (immobile) siege position from the South, interdicting Lee's lines of communication and supply while Sherman et al mostly coordinated their campaigns with his, may not have been a brilliantly inspired strategy in the classical sense, but it ultimately proved to be a winner.

[stainlessbanner]

Halleck protected Grant from himself for a long time. Thomas made Grant successful.

[BooBoo1000]

Grant knew the Southerners would not stop fighting unless he made it so darn miserable for them they could not fight any longer, so he refused to let Lee have time to get more troops and supplies.Instead of going into camp and rearming, he did not give Lee any relief. All the time Sherman was cutting a swath through the heart of the South Georgia South Carolina, North Carolina, tearing up rails and making sure that no help could get to Lee.

Also Grant was the first Union General to use the Calvary as it should have been used.Up until Grant, the Calvary had been used to guard the flanks of the Union Army. Grant reorganized the Calvary, and placed it under the command of General Reno, and turned them lost to cut and slash through the Rebel Army any place they found them.Destroy rail lines and destroy supplies where ever they could find them..

Also it is indeed a pleasure to see so many posters that are interested in the Civil War. This war was the deciding war, that defined who we would be. The Revolution set us up as a Nation, but the Civil War decided who we would be as a country. A nation of free men.

[stainlessbanner]

You are right about Grant's predecessors. He stood out b/c he actually did something, not brilliant, but effective. Grant realized the numbers game, and he played it.

As for his presidency, I assume you are referring to the Union-Pacific and Whiskey Ring Scandals.

[harpseal]

I disagree with your estimation of Grant. First he gave free reign to some of his subordinates who were exellent Generals in ther own right. Sherman and Pap Thomas were both subordinate to Grant originally and their two armies did more to destroy the Confederacy than the Army of the Potomac until late 1864 and early 1865. It was Grant who successfully split the Confederacy with his Vicks burg campaign and his entire operations in the West.

Grant realized the basic truth that great Generals from Alexander of Macedonia through Julius Ceaser to Napolean that lesser Generals think tactics great generals think logistics. He knew the Union had vastly superior logistics and when he was the Supreme Union Commander he coordinated his forces to eliminate the resupply of the South. In a sense he vindicated the original Annaconda strategy propounded by Winfield Scott.

After the Death of Thomas Jackson Lee's victories were very few in number. Robert E. Lee was a truly great General and a fine honorable man. U. S. Grant was also a truly great General and deserving of resapect as a fine and honorable man for his decisions at Appomatix Courthouse if for no other reason.

The scandals of his presidency in no way were a mark of any personal corruption on his part and this gentlemanis worthy of great respect.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[Garden Island]

General Reno died at South Mountain MD, a year and a half before Grant was the head of the Union Army. I think the Cavalry was headed by Sheridan and Custer(by proxy). On that note, the loss of Jeb Stuart during the overland campaign was pretty much the final stake for Lee's Army- although some say the South never had a chance from the get go, and that their only hopeful strategy was to buy enough time to create northern dissent as well as dissent abroad.

[hoot2]

"Also Grant was the first Union General to use the Calvary... "

jeb stuart? did what then?

[Always A Marine]

Unlike his incompetent predecessors, Grant was held in high regard by Confederate generals. If I am not mistaken, at least one of them (Johnston?) was a pallbearer at his funeral...

[fire and forget]

He was the prominent Confederate general who used cavalry effectively early in the War. Confederate officers weren't considered Union officers, were they?

[BooBoo1000]

You are corect Jeb Stuart was very effective for the South, but the Northern Calvary was ill used until Gen Phil Sheridan took it over.

[Pikachu_Dad]

And was it not Custers' troops that got Jeb?

[Beernoser]

Certainly a president who could choose between Lee and Grant to command his army would have a wealth of riches.

However, assuming they were both great generals, which would you choose?

I'd choose Lee. Here's why.

Take Grant in Spring 1864 and put him in charge of the Army of Northern Virginia and think what would he have done different or better than Lee did? I can't think of too much. By 1964, ANV was half the size of the Yankee Army of the Potomac, it's cavalry was wasted to the point of it could no longer fight squarly against the northern cavalry, or even raid. It could barely cover the flanks and rear of the army. Also, the ANV's supply sitation was about done.

Now, put Lee in charge of the AOP instead of the ANV. What could I picture Lee doing differently? He would have divided his army into hard hitting corps, ranging far into the less mobile and much smaller ANV's flanks and rear. He would have hit them from rear and flanks until the ANV dissolved on its way back to Richmond.

In my mind there's no question, Lee was the better general, though they were both very good.

[Restorer]

Thomas made Grant successful.

How did he do that from Tennessee?

[Restorer]

Ulysses S. Grant was a butcherIf Lee had been the one forced to take the offensive, he would have suffered huge losses, as he did at Gettysburg.

The basic problem was that the defensive was getting constantly stronger in this period. This continued right up through 1918, when (semi) reliable tanks finally broke the battlefield wide open.

In the WBTS, both sides were attempting to use Napoleonic tactics against weapons systems closer to those of today than to those Napoleon faced.

[glorgau]

Acutally, the only thing Grant could master is the bottle. Grant had the luxury of waiting, superior numbers, supply lines, etc. Rea's is a flawed comparison.

The Vicksburg campaign is a classic in manuever. The Virginia campaign against Lee was just Grant pinning him against Richmond. Grant realized that Lee could never win with Sherman pinning down the rest of the South.