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More on Longhorn (new Microsoft OS)
Slashdot.org ^ | Friday, November 29, 2002 | Anonymous reader/Seattle P-I

Posted on 11/30/2002 8:22:03 AM PST by Eala

An anonymous reader writes

"Everything I have read concering MS's future plans: Palladium, Client/Server tie in, Office 11 breaking backward compatability, 3 year licensing plans, product activation - all leave me with a foreboding sense of the potential synergy for furthering Microsoft's goals of complete domination. Now this article tells about Longhorn's new filesystem being based on the the future Yukon server. And surprise it will only work with new hardware, which they want to be Palladium enabled. And all pitched to you under the rubric of Security & Efficency. For years MS has been accused of only wanting people to run MS Software. Now according to the article, 'Microsoft doesn't think computer users should have to use one program to read and write a word-processing file, another to use a spreadsheet, and a third to correspond via e-mail. Rather, the company thinks, a single program should handle it all.' One program to rule them all, one program to bind them, indeed."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Technical
KEYWORDS: linux; microsoft; monopoly; palladium; security
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To: ThinkDifferent
Whoa...
21 posted on 11/30/2002 12:06:34 PM PST by krb
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To: lelio
Cool...I'll have to check that out.

I am still stuck trying to get XSL to let me print out my opcode table in a useful XHTML format! I may have to go to SVG if I can't get it to do what I want soon...

22 posted on 11/30/2002 12:08:15 PM PST by krb
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To: Billy_bob_bob
Recently I have found a number of shareware and freeware sites for macintosh. I had always been disappointed with the limited number of applications available for the mac as compared to the pc. Now that trend seems to be changing and I have gotten a couple of programs to run on my ibook and they are really great and inexpensive. They are also being authored by Europeans and Asians.
23 posted on 11/30/2002 12:19:00 PM PST by RWG
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To: lelio
Just look at http://www.lycoris.com and http://www.lindows.com Linux Desktop operating systems are already here and far as I can see Microsoft's only hope of crushing them is to build an OS that's not backwards compatible and that's tied in to proprietary next generation computing hardware on which Linux can't run. And by organizing the Internet around a Microsoft platform, the company hopes to create an inhospitable environment for upstart competitors. "Longhorn" thus isn't about creating a world-class OS but cementing MS's ownership of the PC market in place. I don't think people will go for it not only because it'll take away their choice to run other OS's, it will mean costly and expensive hardware upgrades. I just bought a new computer last year to run Windows XP. Could someone give me a compelling reason why I have to spend a fortune to upgrade to Longhorn? Cause I don't see any benefit I don't already have and Windows XP is for most people already good and stable. I think MS's overreached.
24 posted on 11/30/2002 12:20:41 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: Eala

"I say, I say, are they, are they naming a opera-ating system after me?"

25 posted on 11/30/2002 12:31:09 PM PST by Revolting cat!
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To: Revolting cat!
I guess Foghorn Leghorn's flattered. ;-)
26 posted on 11/30/2002 12:31:55 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: Eala
Palladium tech will report you if you have "unauthorized" files on your system. Intel and AMD have already signed on to assist with this.
27 posted on 11/30/2002 12:35:54 PM PST by zx2dragon
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To: goldstategop
Could someone give me a compelling reason why I have to spend a fortune to upgrade to Longhorn?

It doesn't look like it will be to sell upgrades - it will be to sell new hardware which is an order of magnitude improvement in storage and speed over the best PCs of today. Think mega-multimedia, and oh yes by the way you can't buy the hottest new home movies and music unless it runs on the Palladium box with Windows 2005. Sure Microsoft will be sued over this, but it will be 2010 before the case reaches the Supreme Court, and perhaps by then that will be the only OS legal to run in the USA because the gummint can spy on it so well :-)

28 posted on 11/30/2002 12:37:17 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Eala
Will it stll have embedded spyware like XP????
29 posted on 11/30/2002 12:39:06 PM PST by A CA Guy
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To: HiTech RedNeck
The PC companies are losing money and Microsoft felt it was time to scratch their backs and time for them to scratch the one in Redmond's. Ahhh, one sweetheart deal America can't live without! ;-)
30 posted on 11/30/2002 12:41:28 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: krb
It's actually a language, which by its definition and the nature of XML is almost not a format.

I've done a bit of XML programming and am curious about your comment. I think of a computer language as something that is executed, something that has variables and conmditional execution. Some languages are interpreted rather than executed, but they contain verbs and can be compiled into executable code.

XML, on the other hand, appears to be a digital equavalent of Russian dolls -- a container for data, but not for code. You could write a language in XML, provided you also write a suitable interpreter, but I don't see that this is implied in the definition of XML.

31 posted on 11/30/2002 12:43:07 PM PST by js1138
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To: Eala; tx4guns; fishtank; Aggie Mama; tamu; Trajan88; ag2000jon; NELSON111; Southack; 1L
Ok, it's official. I HATE Microsoft.

(buncha tea sips)

32 posted on 11/30/2002 12:44:52 PM PST by Texaggie79
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To: js1138
The real question is really if switching over to XML is worth the expense. Does it really provide an easier AND more secure computing platform? Microsoft is way behind in getting .NET server shipping out and its still a question of whether the company can get an entirely new OS and related hardware ready by 2004.
33 posted on 11/30/2002 12:46:07 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: js1138
I think of a computer language as something that is executed

A computer language is not executed, but rather it is translated into something the computer can execute. Or, it is translated into some other language that another process can then translate into something the computer can execute.

Take C code for example. I think we would both agree that C is a computer language, yet a computer can't execute C code. In some cases a compiler is used to translate C into something a computer can execute (machine code), but in most cases the compiler translates the C code into assembly code (which a computer can't execute) which is translated into object code (which a computer can almost execute) which is then processed by a linker that spits out the machine code that a computer will execute.

(I put the emphasis on the terms not because I think they are new to you, clearly they are not, but so I can try and show how I see the analogies shaping up for our semantic discussion)

something that has variables and conditional execution. Some languages are interpreted rather than executed, but they contain verbs and can be compiled into executable code.

Well, not all programming languages are like that. Sure the procedural ones that map almost one-to-one directly on a processor do (C, Pascal, BASICs). But Prolog, LISP, Smalltalk, and others are definitely languages but behave radically different.

XML, on the other hand, appears to be a digital equavalent of Russian dolls -- a container for data, but not for code.

Well, it is like the Russian dolls, it is a container for data. But there is no reason that the data can't be code. Just look at XSLT. It is an XML language, and it is code. It has constructs to enable you to interate over input XML data, recurse, loop, search, compare, conditionally execute, and all the things one thinks of with a computer language.

What I meant when I said "It's actually a language, which by its definition and the nature of XML is almost not a format" was that since XML was designed to be extensible, it doesn't really do anything at all; you have to extend it before it is useful...i.e. it's is almost NOT a format, because it's not a format until you write a DTD or a Schema to define your own data format using its precepts.

34 posted on 11/30/2002 1:08:06 PM PST by krb
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To: js1138
P.S. What sort of XML programming do you do? I am curious as to how different groups are using it.
35 posted on 11/30/2002 1:15:02 PM PST by krb
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To: Southack
Look at FreeRepublic. People with all types of OS's surf here. Likewise, the Robinson's write code not for all of those OS's, but for their browsers. So long as you have a modern browser, then you can do whatever you want online, and the type of OS that you have installed has no impact on that fact.

Nothing you have said is factually incorrect, but it completely disses the developer end. The implimentation of an SQL engine, PHP or Perl for serverside scripting along with the harmonious marriage to Apache for a server on a unix-like box is so clean and neat that it is an absolute pleasure to develop on. Those most instrumental in making the internet humm don't spend their time surfing, they spend it coding, and for development, you can't beat the various flavors of unix for a unified, extremely well documented, and no-gimmicks platform.
36 posted on 11/30/2002 1:41:03 PM PST by SpaceBar
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To: Billy_bob_bob; All
I've had it with the whole Wintel paradigm, and I'm not spending another penny on anything related to that platform.

Last night I drove 60 miles round trip to the Apple Store for their 6 PM to Midnight sale-a-thon. I have NEVER used anything Apple (except Quicktime for Windows).

What amazed me was the cross-platform tools they had...You can run Win 98, Win ME, Win 2000, and Win XP if you absolutely must run PC specific software on a Mac.

My goal is to acquire one this coming year and avoid Gates-Games (Palladium, TCPA, 'Fritz Chips', and, of course, Longhorn).

I will retain my three PC's for doing legacy stuff, as well as backup untill I can evaluate the above mentioned cross platform products.

And, late next year, probably get Linux dual booted on said PC's

37 posted on 11/30/2002 1:45:56 PM PST by Lael
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To: dwollmann
Technical readers may find it more useful to think of XML as being SGML-- rather than HTML++.

I only have one nitpick with that XML explanation link:

Technical readers may find it more useful to think of XML as being SGML-- rather than HTML++

That really should be XML is "--SGML", not "SGML--", if you think about it :-)

38 posted on 11/30/2002 2:03:28 PM PST by krb
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To: A CA Guy; All
Will it stll have embedded spyware like XP????

LOL!!!

My latest machine is a Sony Vaio 1.7 GHz Celeron running XP which I only bought to run educational software that REQUIRES QuickTime for Windows (QT for Win has been 'broken' for at least a year!)

Because of the 'spyware' and assorted 'backdoors' [at LEAST three!], the machine is not connected to the Internet, in any manner, shape or form.

We use 'Sneakernet' for security purposes!!

39 posted on 11/30/2002 2:08:21 PM PST by Lael
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To: Lael
And, late next year, probably get Linux dual booted on said PC's

I stopped messing around with dual boot on my latest machine and went instead with removable hard disk drive bays. It is much cleaner that way, and I don't run the risk of letting a partition editor mess up an innocent partition!

40 posted on 11/30/2002 2:11:10 PM PST by krb
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