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Assults on Liberty
ocregister.com ^ | 11/23/02 | Robert A. Levy

Posted on 11/25/2002 11:18:53 AM PST by winner45

Edited on 04/14/2004 10:05:39 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Nov. 24, 2002 Orange County Register Column: John Poindexter may be right for the job of collecting data on U.S. citizens. But is the job - and other post-9/11 government actions - right for a free society?

Senior fellow in Constitutional Studies at the Cato Institute in Washington, D.C.


(Excerpt) Read more at 2.ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government
KEYWORDS: liberty; ohs; tia
The STATE is your Enemy
1 posted on 11/25/2002 11:18:53 AM PST by winner45
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To: winner45
Just pinging myself for later!
2 posted on 11/25/2002 11:27:17 AM PST by AntiGuv
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To: winner45
"...to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve."

-- Attorney General John Ashcroft

God Bless John Ashcroft and George W. Bush!
3 posted on 11/25/2002 11:28:29 AM PST by billybudd
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To: winner45

In other words: "Self-governance is your Enemy". Thanks, but no thanks.

4 posted on 11/25/2002 11:31:09 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: winner45
Terrorism Information and Prevention System: TIPS was the administration brainchild that would have transformed us into a nation of busybodies and snoops. About 11 million informants - especially mail carriers, utility employees and others with unique access to private homes - were to help the Justice Department build yet another database containing names of persons not charged with any wrongdoing.

HSA roadkilled TIPS - Section 880.

Monitoring attorney-client communications: Attorney General John Ashcroft, armed only with "reasonable suspicion" that a communication would "facilitate acts of terrorism," invented Justice Department authority to monitor talks between detainees and their lawyers, without a court order, despite constitutional guarantees of an unimpeded right to counsel.

Uh, there were concrete allegations that the suspects in the 1994 WTC bombing were passing information through their lawyers. If you are going to infringe on anyone's rights, it seems to me that infringing upon Middle-East nationals who are suspected of terrorism is a reasonable place to start.

5 posted on 11/25/2002 11:32:15 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: Kevin Curry; Roscoe; Texasforever; Boot Hill; rintense; Howlin; ladyinred

The silence of the Libertarians in condemning this anarcho-nonsense is deafening.

6 posted on 11/25/2002 11:40:13 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
The silence of the Libertarians in condemning this anarcho-nonsense is deafening.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I just reflexively avoid any thread where certain people pop up. I can only tolerate so much unhinged ranting for any given day... See ya 'round!

7 posted on 11/25/2002 11:47:38 AM PST by AntiGuv
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To: billybudd
Are you being sarcastic? Those are the most telling words ever to come out of our facist attorney general's mouth.
8 posted on 11/25/2002 11:52:48 AM PST by The FRugitive
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To: Cultural Jihad
In other words: "Self-governance is your Enemy". Thanks, but no thanks.

CJ, you're one of a very special group: people capable of confusing themselves with the State. I hate to disillusion you, but you're not the State. I know I'm not. I would never have decided to tax or regulate myself this way.

"Self-governance" is a badly constructed phrase. Everyone governs -- i.e., restrains --himself to some extent, even under the most thoroughgoing totalitarianism. But except under conditions of absolute anarchy, no one is self-governing in the political sense, regardless of the form of the government he must abide. Not even in a pure democracy. Most especially in a pure democracy. That's about 95% of the argument for Constitutionalism.

Oops, did I say the wrong thing? CJ's no fan of the Constitution. I didn't intend to upset him.

The burgeoning security apparatus does have troubling aspects, though not everything described in the above article is necessarily pernicious. Given the legislative majorities involved, we have to hope the courts circumscribe the executive's powers in accordance with the Constitutional design.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com

9 posted on 11/25/2002 11:55:05 AM PST by fporretto
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To: The FRugitive

Faces usually come with mouths.

10 posted on 11/25/2002 11:56:29 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: fporretto
The burgeoning security apparatus does have troubling aspects, though not everything described in the above article is necessarily pernicious. Given the legislative majorities involved, we have to hope the courts circumscribe the executive's powers in accordance with the Constitutional design.

There is a much more effective way - contact your congresscritters and Senators and work to have the more obnoxious provisions lifted. This article mentions TIPS - but TIPS was killed, not by the courts, but by Section 880 - of the Homeland Security Act.

Contrary to popular belief, the legislative process still works from time to time, especially when a lot of citizens get involved.

11 posted on 11/25/2002 11:59:07 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: fporretto
While a big fan of the Constitution, I oppose those humanist ideologues who think their moral-liberal social-Darwinist science fiction-addled philosophy trumps it somehow.
12 posted on 11/25/2002 11:59:53 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: billybudd
That's an awesome quote from Ashcroft!
13 posted on 11/25/2002 12:01:10 PM PST by rintense
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To: billybudd
God Bless John Ashcroft and George W. Bush!

Oh, subtle!

For Freepers not in the know, Billy Budd's last (and only) words in Melville's story are "God bless Captain urk!"

14 posted on 11/25/2002 12:22:26 PM PST by Grut
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To: Cultural Jihad
"The STATE is your Enemy"

As Pogo said: "Yep son, we have met the enemy and he is us." --Boot Hill

15 posted on 11/25/2002 3:12:34 PM PST by Boot Hill
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To: Boot Hill
Here's another loony 'sky is falling' post. Noteworthy is Hank's post stating he'd rather take his chances with terrorists than with our own sovereign people's self-governed laws: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/795782/posts
16 posted on 11/25/2002 5:48:21 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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