FREE TRADE IS A BAD IDEA

Bob Lonsberry ^ | 11/25/2002 | Bob Lonsberry

[dyed_in_the_wool]

Fair enough, but on this thread (maybe because of the author of the original piece) it could sound as though you're anti-free trade, or protectionist, etc.
Don't just hold the corporations responsible, although some are. Government has made it happen this way. They tax the wealthy at 40%+ and then are amazed when heir leave the country.
And with Dick Armey retiring, there'll be no more economists in congress.

FWIW, I can understand some protections.
And I also think MicroSoft should be carefully broken into at least two, maybe 3 different organizations. Boy, THAT went over great. But if you read REAL free-market thinkers you'll see that monopolies are inherently BAD for open and free markets and that is what MicroSoft most definitely has.

Balance in all things, liberty above all. -- Me.

[Protagoras]

There is plenty of evidence about the deleterious effects of H1B workers.

Deleterious to who? People who choose not to agree to the same employment terms as their competitors?

[jonno]

In the end, only jobs that require human creativity (art, writing, cooking, design, etc.) will remain; all products will be manufactured by overseas prison labor or domestic machinery. The prices for goods will drop dramatically -- but without jobs and income, who will buy them?

What???

Who is going to design and build these hi-tech robots? Who is going to build the computer systems to run them?

Yes, labor costs trend downward for a simple reason - it doesn't make any sense to pay someone $20 an hour to operate a screwdriver. Instead take that same "skilled" worker and have them perform "skilled work" (see above robots).

Regards,

[Protagoras]

Microsoft is not a monopoly. But that for a different thread.

[Protagoras]

I believe that God has shown his blessings on this land. I also believe he has shown his wrath on other lands... Medes, Babylonians... and etc...

An amazing answer for a Christian IMO. You actually believe that God wants you to annoint humans who have been fortunate enough to be born in this country and deny others the basic dignity of free association.

That means, that at the point of a gun, people are to be forced not to deal with other human beings because of their location. They should be left to poverty so the annointed can enjoy a set standard of living. And this is God's way of telling us we have a great country?

This is a warped view. Please refer to the new testament for instructions on how to treat your fellow man.

[american spirit]

One factor that's not been touched concerning this whole free trade issue is the explosion of debt on every level which has masked the debillitating effects of our trade policy. In order to sustain the illusion that we have a healthy economy the fedgov,corporations, and individuals are now saddled with debt that will be very difficult to repay, especially in this unstable economic period. At some point during the last 15-20 yrs. the USA went from being the world's largest creditor nation to being the largest debtor nation which in has caused us to be at the mercy of foreign investors.

Just like the yuppies of yesteryear, the U.S. economy now has an illusion of prosperity that will last only until the gov't.s printing presses come to a halt. Real wealth can only be created by manufacturing, anything else is just a poker game with the chips being continually shuffled around the table.

[Protagoras]

I am worn out.

It must be tiring to avoid so many questions. The effects are only deleterious to those who wish to work without competition.

[dyed_in_the_wool]

Microsoft is not a monopoly.

Actually, according to the Department of Justic, they are.

[Protagoras]

Actually, according to the Department of Justic, they are.

Thankfully, departments of the government are not the undisputed definers of terms such as that. They call things by all kinds of titles for political purposes.

[Protagoras]

No argument from me. You are free to have opinions about Christianity which are completely at odds with the bible. You won't have to explain it to me at your judgement. But you will have to explain it.

Try this, "Lord, I know you will be proud of me for screwing my fellow man in the name of keeping more for myself and my countrymen because you chose us as more deserving".

It ought to play well.

[dyed_in_the_wool]

Thankfully, departments of the government are not the undisputed definers of terms such as that.

True. That's why I first used the Hayek/Friedman definition. According to their Free Market Economics, MicroSoft is a monopoly.
You don't have to like it or believe it, but by restraint of trade, among other things, they are monopolists.
Put another way, ask yourself the last time MicroSoft pushed for an Open Standard for ANYTHING.
We can wait. But I already know what the answer is. In fact, they're justthisverymoment working against the Open XML document consortium that they helped found. Imagine that.
And you wonder why people get pissed having to pay $300 so they can share files with MicroSoft Office users...

[Protagoras]

Put another way, ask yourself the last time MicroSoft pushed for an Open Standard for ANYTHING.

Pushing for open standards doesn't define whether you are a monopolist or not. I know of no companies or individuals who try to help their competitors.

A true monopoly, which is the very rarest of things (absent government, or other force), leaves no options or alternatives. Microsoft doesn't qualify. Not to mention that the main thing that got them in trouble with government regulators (under Bill Clinton's direction) was giving things away for free.

[FITZ]

. Uneducated workers are fighting for their drill press jobs, and refuse to seek other means of earning wages.

Maybe they should get educated and get into computer programming!!

[FITZ]

Uneducated workers are fighting for their drill press jobs, and refuse to seek other means of earning wages.

Okay ---we should hope they starve to death but why aren't the 401K plans and the stock markets doing well? You'd think the stock market would be bursting through the top if free trade was working as it was claimed it would.

[FITZ]

the gov't.s printing presses come to a halt.

Exactly. That's all our economy is currently based on.

[B-Chan]

I've already answered your question: creative jobs (including design and programming) will be most resistant to automation, but these jobs will be limited both by demand (only so many designers will be needed) and supply (most people do not have the ability to design automated production systems). Therefore, only a few such jobs (relative to the population as a whole) will exist. As for repair: Machnes generally need repair only as a result of bad engineering (kludges, needlessly complex systems, legacy holdovers in design), physical damage (environmental damage, misusem sabotage, disasters) or poor workmanship (human error). As technology advances, the design of these automated factory robots will advance, eliminating kludgy single-function designs in favor of all-purpose "assemblers" with modular, swap-out subsystems. Once machines are building machines, poor workmanship will cease to be a factor; and, since these modular assemblers will work 24-hour, 7-day weeks in sealed, climate controlled environments, moisture and heat conditions can be tailored to fit the optimum for the machines, instead of the comfort and convenience of human operators, reducing the possibility of enivironmental damage to the assemblers. With no people in the production loop, factories will become sealed units: recycled raw material feedstocks will be introduced at one end, finished goods will emerge from the other. With the possibility of human damage from misuse and sabotage reduced to zero, these "magic mills" could eliminate the entire concept of factory labor in capital-rich markets; the only "jobs" created would be high-end design and programming jobs (such repairs as would be needed could be handled by low-wage, unskilled labor; the assemblers would shut down long enough for a human or robot to enter the mill, swap out the malfunctioning module, and leave). In capital-poor markets, these "magic mills" would be replaced by sweatshops, with no-wahe prison labor substituting for the assembler robots.

Given the way technology and markets are progressing, I honestly cannot imagine what the world economy will be like in fifty years' time. Since machines can manufacture finished goods better, faster, and more cheaply than can any human workforce (except for slave labor), and since there are only so many high-end, automation-proof "creative" jobs to go around, I simply cannot imagine what the Average Joe is going to do for a living in the year 2052. Maybe the problem isn't the march of progress; perhaps it's my limited imagination.

In any case, thank God I'm a professional artist. There are some things only a human being can do.