TERRI SCHIAVO TO DIE IN ATTORNEY'S "DEATH FACTORY": SUNCOAST HOSPICE BOSS IS GEORGE FELOS...

Becki Snow ^ | Nov 24, 2002 | Becki Snow

[Catspaw]

It also seems like the Schinders are having a tough time dealing with their daughter's persistent vegetative state, and they seem to be stuck in one place, and the anger is flamed by others with an agenda, one which is now encouraging the use of an untested, untried experimental therapy. I doubt if the Schindlers will stop the litigation long after the money's gone to the lawyers--their anger is much to great at Michael Schiavo, and they're using the courts to punish him, and this will continue long after Terri Schiavo dies. Sadly, this case has become their lives, their blind obsession, and if they let go of the case and their daughter, they'll have nothing else.

[Jael]

Have you seen the video of her responding? Do we now become a people who "off" the least able among us?

[Catspaw]

Actually, I have seen the video to Terri Schiavo. "Responding" is not the word I'd give it. She's like so many persons I took care of when I worked in a nursing home during college--she's in a vegetative state. She has periods of wakefulness and asleep, she makes grunts and other noises, her eyes move around, but yet have little to no focus. These people will "look" at someone and sometimes you'll think their eyes are tracking, but the eyes will look right through you and past you. Of course, video can be manipulated to make it seem as though someone is responding. What I saw was someone whose body was present, making some involuntary movements that could be interpreted as "responding" by those who want to believe she is responding to stimuli. What would be more effective was to see how she reacts or doesn't react over a series of days, even weeks.

The parents are desparate to hang on to their daughter, and that's understandable. Their anger and rage is less understandable, although it is a stage of grief, but there is counseling tailored for them. I suggest they avail themselves of that counseling. However, I have to question why they'd want their daughter to be used as an guinea pig for an untested experimental treatment (unless the doctors who are recommending this treatment have written a scientific study on effectivness of this treatment, something that wasn't submitted into evidence, at least according to the Judge's decision). This does reminds me of terminal cancer patients who'll try anything, no matter how bizarre, to keep themselves from succumbing to the disease.

[Jael]

You have not addressed the issue. Why should this woman be murdered, starved to death, to satisfy the demands of another?

When we can't protect and care for the innocent and helpless, we become what we hate.

[Catspaw]

That's how you're framing the issue, but I'm not. I'm sure you're a supporter of the Schindlers in their quest to wreak vengeance against their son-in-law.

Can you give guarantees that using their daughter as a guinea pig can restore her to even 5% of the life she had before? Does Terri Schiavo have any cognition? Does she know what's happening around her? Does she have a life beyond lying in a hospital bed for years on end? How many times a day does she involuntarily defecate and urinate? Have you ever taken care of comatose and vegetative state patients? Have you ever wiped the feces from their rectums and buttocks (if they haven't smeared it all over their bodies and put their feces-covered hands in their mouths, as some are wont to do)? How many hours a week do you work or volunteer at a hospice or nursing home?

As for me, if I were in this state, I have already made sure that my family knows that I would not want to exist in this condition by exercising a living will. Why? Because, after caring for patients like these, I may have the capacity to breathe, process nutrition, defecate and urinate, only the body is present. My ability to think, function, have any cognition is long gone. My soul is waiting for the body to join it.

[TheRedSoxWinThePennant]

I am not arguing a persons right to die if I were in terri's shoes would I want to live ABSOLUTELY NOT but terri is not brain dead she was thrown into a nursing home right after discharge from the hospital. her husband denied any therapy. unfortunately there is no advance directive so what her wishes are will remain unknown.

the problem I have is that we can start starving the severe handicapped or infirmed this is not keeping a brain dead person alive with a ventilator or not reviving the terminally ill. If this becomes the norm whats to stop a parent from starving their handicapped child or a child starving their alzeimers patient?

terri is not brain dead she does follow commands as far as the abuse I cannot say one way or the other but a bone scan revealed numerous old fractures (this has been reported in both tampa papers) so thats where that allegation came from.

[Jael]

As long as she has breath, her soul is present. And yes, I have cared for the infirm and the dying. And if you want someone dead because you are worried about someone having to wipe their butt's, you ought to rethink things.

[vtel57]

Hi RedSox,

Here're a few exerpts from a Tampa trib article of 11 October:

Exerpt 1:A doctor who testified Friday called her movements a "primitive reflex," and contended that Terri Schiavo is brain dead and will never emerge from the vegetative state she's lived in since a 1990 heart attack.

Exerpt 2: Gambone acknowledged that Terri Schiavo appeared in the video to be reacting to people around her but said her movements and utterances are involuntary reflexes.

Exerpt 3:"Her condition is one that there is no recovery," he testified. "The damage that was done to her brain is not repairable."

My question here is: Who's right? Which physician or speclialist is telling us the truth. A brain activity scan is a relatively simple procedure for them to have performed on Ms. Schiavo. From my understanding of this, there's not a whole lot of interpretation involved in this... either there's brain activity or there isn't. The physician in this article is claiming she's brain dead. Is he lying?

Here's the link for the article:

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/florida/MGAXV1II67D.html

Regards,

V.T. Eric Layton
***Tempus Fugits***
vtel57@softhome.net

[Catspaw]

You probably should consider that Terri Schiavo still has some brain stem left. That'd allow her heart to keep beating, her to keep breathing, probably not allow her to swallow or to make anything but involuntary movements.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

Ping for prayers

[Catspaw]

That's your opinion. However, with your opinion, you also negate the ability of people to receive organ transplants from people who are brain dead. To be consistent, you must be against organ transplants as well.

As far as my career, it was only to put me through college and after working in nursing home and after getting punched, kicked, clawed, slapped, scratched, puked, pooped and peed on by patients for three years, and having to lift 400+ lb patients for the same length of time, I wanted to get a job that didn't involve getting beat up by patients and not to do any heavy lifting--and that's precisely what I did. Others, like my sister, enjoy nursing, but she's a psych nurse. Her patients get out of control and they get medicated, but she's gotten some very spectacular shiners and other assorted bruises from her patients.

[Jael]

You have gone from acting like you are worried about people in a state where you claim they are vegatables to complaining about your job caring for said people and getting beat up by them.

Here is how a functional society works. The stronger protect the weaker. The older help the younger. The man protects the woman. The Groom dies for the Bride.

Your position has it all backwards. In your mind and world, the strong kill the weak because
1. They are vegatables.
2. Someone has to wipe their butts.
3. The vegatables have beat you up a few times.

[Ealnyin]

The real issure here is NOT the fact that she can respond or not at this point.

The issue here is, IS IT RIGHT TO STARVE HER TO DEATH???

If they are going to "Let her Die" then let her die.

If they remove the feeding tube, she will not get the nutrition that she needs to survive.

I have seen the video of her and the main thing that I was saw was that she is NOT on any kind of Breathing machines, just the feeding tube. I have know alot of people who have lived long lives on feeding tubes.

If a person can not breath on their own and require a machine to breathe for them, the machine can be turned off and the person will die in a matter of minutes BUT, while on a feeding tube, the tube can be removed and that person will continue to live for several days until, they finally die of malnutrition.

Any way you look at it, wheather a court says take the tube out or not, it is MURDER! There is NO other way to look at it.

If Mr. Schiavo does not want to take care of his wife then, the courts should remove him as legal guardian and give all responsiblity to the parents.

[TheRedSoxWinThePennant]

http://www.sptimes.com/2002/12/03/Columns/Giving_up_the_fight_t.shtml

[MarMema]

CP, have you seen the vidoes at the site where they are trying to show her degree of life? Do you really think it is right to starve this woman?

What is the position of the church on euthanasia?

Terri is not dying of a terminal illness or so unresponsive that she does not show awareness of people or responses to stimuli. She does not seem to be in great pain. Don't you think God should be the one to decide the timing of her death? And have you ever seen anyone starve to death? It's not pretty.

Terri has enough awareness that she will suffer from the event. Since when is this about money?

[eleni121]

I just saw Felos on O'Reilley tonight. What a miserable excuse for a human being. The culture of death pervades his soul.

Was I surprised to see this SOB's connection with Hospice? NOT! I have always suspected that hospice was simply a stepping stone, another domino into death for millions of unsuspecting people.

[OXENinFLA]

I think this needs a good BUMPING.....

[cyn]

Hi, Oxen. I just got back from the Justice Coalition mtg / vigil (don't really like that word.) at the Jax federal courthouse. Various speakers from Justice Coalition and victims relatives were speaking when I got there. There were about 65 - 70 people there incl. media -- I counted heads. People were somber of course, angry, and sad, and asking Jeb to act. Some had spent last few days in Tally; one person said Jeb usually says hi to her but that he didn't poke his head out at her this time. Conclusion reached was to do the little things we still see to do, but to pray and call on the name of the Lord, that our reliance needs to be on HIM, and the glory needs to be HIS -- not Jeb's, not any person's. Psalm 146 was cited.

I'm gonna see about getting down there to St. Pete tomorrow, come back tomorrow night, is what I'm thinking. I do hope and pray that the deus ex machina (Jeb w/his posse) arrives sometime tonight. That he truly is getting his little duckies in a row, preparing to act decisively for this innocent woman whose terrible predicament is breaking our hearts. otw . . . I have plans for Sean.

[freekitty]

This just gets worse and worse.

[cyn]

Is this about the oldest extant Terri thread? History of Terri on FR bump.