Posted on 11/18/2002 7:26:58 AM PST by Jack Black
Well, that's true, Roscoe. Society has no rights. Words mean things, Roscoe. When Clinton was in power, that was a buzzword here at FreeRepublic. I know it's a small detail to you, but only men have God-given rights. Rights are by definition something that men have as a result of being men. Society may be made up of men, but it's NOT a man. Society doesn't have rights, unions don't have rights, governments don't have rights; in short, only individuals have rights.To: exodus
None that your cult will respect. So much for the falsehood that it's a libertarian belief that rights must be honored.
# 197 by Roscoe
Rightys must be honored if our society is to survive, Roscoe.
Since we seem to have a different definition of what a right is, why don't you tell me what you think a "right" is.
Which has exactly nothing to do with your fraudulent attempt to claim the Founding Fathers as Libertarians.
I was not aware that there was a water problem up here in North Idaho! I thought that in some places in Farrgat State Park by the lake where they use to do naval exercises it is as deep as 1500 feet. And then we have Lake Coeur d'Alene. I thought there were a ton of streams and lakes and fresh water places up here not to mention plenty of rain and snow last year. Oh well I have only lived up here three years I am glad to be informed regarding our water problem. MCD
To: exodus
You're funny, nopardons.
It's almost like a "Saturday Night Live" news skit, where the guest is completely irrational, and the host can't think of a word to say in response.
"Every man, and every body of men on earth, possesses the right of self-government. They receive it with their being from the hand of nature. Individuals exercise it by their single will; collections of men by that of their majority; for the law of the majority is the natural law of every society of men." --Thomas Jefferson"That every power vested in a government is in its nature sovereign, and includes, by force of the term, a right to employ all the means requisite and fairly applicable to the attainment of the ends of such power, and which are not precluded by restrictions and exceptions specified in the Constitution, or not immoral, or not contrary to the essential ends of political society." -- Alexander Hamilton
"But the constitution of the United States has not left the right of Congress to employ the necessary means, for the execution of the powers conferred on the government, to general reasoning. To its enumeration of powers is added that of making 'all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this constitution, in the government of the United States, or in any department thereof.' " -- United States Supreme Court, McCulloch v. Maryland (1819)
Up until the mid 1800's , you DID have the " right " to own slaves. That was changed. Uless and until a whole bunch of laws get thrown out / changed Libertarians ( and like minded folk; few as they may be ) do NOT have the " rught " to do much of what they claim to want.
Words DO have certain, set meanings ; so do LAWS !
You're right, nopardons. They don't like facts.
Other than from extreme Liberals, have you EVER seen such revisionist history being spewed as truths, as from Libertarians ?
Really? American colonists were Englishmen, and as we all know, there was a big difference in the treatment of a commoner and a member of the Peerage when going before a judge. Neither England nor any other nation on Earth at the time had a system of law where all men were expected to be treated equally under the law.To: exodus
My statement had to do with your claim that judicial equality was nothing new. The application of libertarian views was, in fact, something new.
The Founding Fathers acted on libertarian beliefs when they created our nation. That is a true statement, and a historical fact.
To: exodus
I see that you, along with Roscoe, have no idea what a God-given right is.
Tell me, nopardons, how can I have a "right" in one State, but not have that same "right" in a different State because there's a man-made law against it?
There was no such thing as a so called " Libertarian principle " , back then, either !
There was Federalist thought/ principle, nonFederalist thought/ principle, proMonarchy thought/ positions, and like right now, morons, whose principles and thoughts and positions don't make any sense at all.
Their ignorance of and contempt for the nature of property is astounding.
So how many of us up here should quit using our wells? I guess according to someone it should belong to the government and not us then we can pay them for water right? MCD
Whislt you're chewing on that, please DO explain how it was that in 1780, women weren't allowed to vote and that slavary was a GOD given right in ALL states ; however, by the mid 1800s. slavery was NOT a " GOD given right " is ALL states and territories.
To: exodus
Libertarians don't refuse to honor the "rights" of our governments, Roscoe. We point out that God-given rights are the province of men, NOT of governmental bodies.
Society is merely a word to personify our culture; it has nether rights nor power.
Governments have the POWER to create and administer law, and to compel obedience.
"Power" does not mean 'God-given right." The power of a government comes not by God-given right, but by man-made law.
To: exodus
Freedom of association, nopardons.
It makes lots of people feel queasy, just as others feel queasy about inter-racial marrages. Really, though, IT"S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Women weren't allowed to vote, and slavery was tolerated, as a result of MAN-MADE laws.
God had nothing to do with it.
"It's flowing across MY land, therefore it's MY water, and F*** EVERYONE ELSE!" Their ignorance of and contempt for the nature of property is astounding.To: Roscoe; Poohbah
Hey, it worked out very well for the government at Klamath Falls.
The farmers paid for constructing the lake, and then had to pay the government for the use of water they had a legal comtract to.
The farmers owned outright water the government forced them to pay to access.
To: exodus
Yes, there was "libertarians" then, nopardons. They were the "Damned Traitors" who believed that the lawful government of King George was infringing on their God-given rights.
They were the "Patriots" who created a system that claimed the unheard of idea that whether common man or government leader, all had the "right" to equal treatment under the law.
A few decades ago, conservatives called themselves "liberals." Now the liberals are socialists.
Words change, nopardons. "Libertarian" is today's word for what the Founders were.
Almost all of the states being mooted have this problem, not just Idaho. The ones that do have water also have completely bankrupt economies that will have just as much difficulty absorbing 20,000 people. But you haven't even come close to answering the question.Almost all of the states being mooted have this problem, not just Idaho. The ones that do have water also have completely bankrupt economies that will have just as much difficulty absorbing 20,000 people. But you haven't even come close to answering the question.To: Poohbah
Well, Poohbah?
You accused the supporters of "Free State" of not wanting to answer your question of water usage. It now seems that your "facts" were invented.
Do you have any links to back up your claim that Idaho is suffering a water shortage?
To: nopardons
I took the time to search the entire thread, Roscoe.
You're lying.
Your refusal to admit that there is a difference between "voluntary" and 'involuntary" does not mean that OWK supports slavery.
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