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To: rohry
The Wall Street spin machine was really going good today ... the headline on Bloomberg this AM said something like "Retail sales excluding Autos rise 0.7 %". Isn't that kind of like saying "Buffalo Bills win SuperBowl, excluding missed field goal"? Nevermind that as Scott points out, overall they were flat.

Just curious, how do other Freepers see the economy's real state? From my anectdotal view, it's looking grim ... not to get too specific but I know of more layoffs on the way in November and December in the Atlanta area ..

3 posted on 11/14/2002 5:34:37 PM PST by ReyDM
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To: ReyDM
My take on the current state of the economy is this......

The Fed is setting up the consumers for a huge financial fall, by allocating more money through lower interest rates, they are encouraging debt that we cant afford. They are cheering for consumers to keep spending even though they cannot afford it. Continued intervention by the government is delaying the inevitable depression that is coming.

4 posted on 11/14/2002 5:53:36 PM PST by Lunatic Fringe
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To: ReyDM
I would worry about a deflationary cycle looming this Spring if things don't pick up.

Where is the spending going to come from? Consumers are tapped out IMHO. Despite 0% financing on big ticket items, sales are flat or falling. I bought a new car last year. Won't buy one for another ten years. 0% on a $4,000.00 plasma TV? I don't think so.

Just look at consumer costs right now. Our 401K's lost 30-40% the last couple of years. What are baby boomers going to do for retirement? Keep pouring money into losing investments? Limp along on 3-4% bond investments that are eaten up by inflation and tax increases?

Health insurance copayments are costing consumers -thousands- more per year and no end is in sight. One major nedical event in your family and your savings are wiped out.

Gasoline has crept steadily upward this year and may spike with any Mid-East developments. Home heating costs are projected to increase 20-25% more than last year.

My property tax assesment went up 16% in one year. How about a looming real estate bubble as people can hardly afford to live in the houses they spent years trying to afford?

How about historic consumer credit debt? Families have thousands of dollars on their statements now. Tens of thousands of debt in their home equity loans.

No a pretty picture....






5 posted on 11/14/2002 6:22:02 PM PST by Milwaukee_Guy
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To: ReyDM
Just curious, how do other Freepers see the economy's real state? From my anectdotal view, it's looking grim ... not to get too specific but I know of more layoffs on the way in November and December in the Atlanta area ..

Well...

If one were to opine about the sorry state of the economy prior to 11/5, then about 99.9999999999999999999999999% of the FReepers would have been accusing that person of being an pro-RAT shill, and helping Daschle.

Now that we are all safe in our Pubbie Paradise, I will state again that this economy sucks whale ass. Debt, debt, debt, and even some debt are in the process of disemboweling any chance for a meaningful recovery. The government wrote a half-tril worth of debt this year, every local government is coming down from their late-90s estimates on tax revenues, and going into debt. Real estate has been outstripping wages by better than 15% nationwide for some time, and that is going to be fugly when that bubble goes kablooie. 2002 is going to be the year where cash-out refis for a single year beat the entire last decade for such things. That's more debt. Manufacturers of big ticket items (autos, electronic gizmos) are offering 0% down for the forseeable future. Mortgages are going for the inflation rate, and that bald guy that CNBS worships keeps printing more dough.

So, what happens when inflation ticks up? Interest rates rise, and all that is going well will slam into reverse. All that is not going well will really hit their stride.

When you have to give away your cars, major employers are announcing double digit employee cuts, your currency is being sold, and you governments are drowning in red ink, that seems to be trouble.

Then again, the Pubbies are running everything, and most of my reading on the subject (on FR) states that we are about to enter full employment, free money, no crime, life expectancy to 175, gold paved streets, an SUV in every house, every house a mansion, racial harmony, everlasting peace (once we whack Iraq), the end of drought, the cure for cancer, and the final death of telemarketers.

How do you see the economy?

6 posted on 11/14/2002 6:33:30 PM PST by Orion
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To: ReyDM
In RE today, we have marginal to poor quality buyers chasing higher priced houses.

This is good news, so I am told.

9 posted on 11/14/2002 6:53:43 PM PST by razorback-bert
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To: ReyDM; rohry
Not to be alarmist, but there are terror alerts all over the place. If they impact the holiday shopping season, the economy might take a swoon dive, having been propped up by borrowing and consumer spending.
10 posted on 11/14/2002 7:44:27 PM PST by lds23
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To: ReyDM
"Just curious, how do other Freepers see the economy's real state?"

The deflationary vise is putting the squeeze on most.

My own employer is o.k. for the time being. Despite the enormous price pressure we've seen, we're doing much better than last year, when we came within literally minutes of being closed for good by our creditors. We are now a lean, mean, profitable machine. Deflation is a great and ruthless efficiency expert.

BUT -- there's basically no place left to cut. So if our efficiency expert pays us another visit like last year's, we could be gone. We're doing much better, true -- in fact having one of our best years ever profit-wise -- but gross sales have a slight negative trend. No one is feeling secure, and we're all basically grateful to have jobs.

15 posted on 11/14/2002 10:58:26 PM PST by Tauzero
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