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To: sinkspur; Siobhan; saradippity; sandyeggo; sitetest; patent; allend; RobbyS; Irisshlass
You may disagree with Pat Buchanan's political views. I have voted for him but find myself disagreeing more with each passing day particularly with mad xenophobe disease and his attempted revival of 1930s-style ostrich foreign policy (isolationism). He could also give a well-deserved rest to the habit of racial preference expressed by his remark that 1000 Brits would fit in better than 1000 Zulu as Virginia citizens. Although I am partially English, I am also partially Irish and have generally imagined the Zulu quite admirable based on Islandwhana, Roark's Drift and on Mengisthu Buthelezi's their generally admirable track record in South Africa.

That having been said, however, it seems fairly obvious that Pat Buchanan does not seem to be the sort of fellow to personally birth control his way out of parenthood. [his peek-a-boo routines with the children in the pews at Old St. Mary's Tridentine Masses in DC are legend.] Nor does his wife Shelley seem to be that sort of woman.

I know, and I'll bet you do too, many fine couples who live with the tragedy of involuntary childlessness, unable to conceive a child. Some adopt. Some do not. Often these couples stick to their marriage vows, accept childlessness as God's will and deepen their own commitment to one another. Some are fortunate enough to adopt.

When Buchanan met and married his wife, she was a secretary at Nixon's law firm in New York, no socialite, just the woman he came to love and who came to love him. There has never been the slightest hint of misbehavior of an extramarital sort on the part of either one. In our society and, regrettably all too often in our own Church, their nearly forty-year marriage is an all-too rare and exemplary performance.

Your post consists of three parts: cheap shots against the pope's suggestion of some leniency toward prisoners. You are generally right policy-wise and tone deaf as to the public attitude owed by a deacon to a pope, much less this pope. Second, a general observation rooted in the effect of materialism on birth rates when, to turn things around, you were admirably non-bashful about fathering a number of children of your own; and third, cheap shots directed at Pat Buchanan and, by implication, his wife, Shelley. You can do better than this. You have done better than this. You will do better than this.

I despise George McGovern's politics but he never seemed likely to be a bad or ungenerous parent (other than bringing his babies up to be liberals). Neither have you. Neither has Pat Buchanan.

Finally, the Catholic Church has had much to say, most of it wiser as policy than this liberal aspect of JPII, about criminal justice. God is the author of justice. He is perfect justice. The Roman Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself and therefore God's own Church. Our Anglo-American system of criminal justice was established when England was still part of Christendom. Felonies reflect our truth as to mortal sin (the unforgiven felon is (or was) civilly dead and an outlaw. The unforgiven mortal sinner is spiritually dead and an excommunicant. Misdemeanors reflect our view of venial sin: no civil death/no spiritual death but either is in need of penance and punishment. Without God, government has the power of the knout but no authority.

11 posted on 11/14/2002 6:46:31 AM PST by BlackElk
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To: BlackElk; *Catholic_list; father_elijah; nickcarraway; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; ...
Catholic discussion ping!

Please notify me via Freepmail if you would like to be added to or removed from the Catholic Discussion Ping list.

18 posted on 11/14/2002 7:52:29 AM PST by Salvation
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To: BlackElk
Pope John Paul II delivered a historic speech to the Italian parliament Thursday, urging Italians to have more children to reverse the country's declining birth rate.
Man, can you imagine all the screaming that would go on if JPII spoke to Congress? Whoo boy! That would be a sight.
29 posted on 11/14/2002 8:47:06 AM PST by patent
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To: BlackElk
He could also give a well-deserved rest to the habit of racial preference expressed by his remark that 1000 Brits would fit in better than 1000 Zulu as Virginia citizens.

Is this "racial" preference or cultural preference?

I have no doubt whatsoever that 1000 Brits would fit in better than 1000 Zulu as Virginia citizens. And no, it's not because Zulu are darker-skinned. (Even dark-skinned, African-descended Brits would fit better than Zulus, you see.)

I'm not saying I'm a Buchanan fan (I'm not), it's just that you could have chosen, I imagine, a much worse quote of his to pick on. This one is, quite frankly, indisputable.

Although I am partially English, I am also partially Irish and have generally imagined the Zulu quite admirable based on Islandwhana, Roark's Drift

It seems like you are praising the Zulus' bravery and courage in swarming opponents on the battlefield. Uh, I won't argue, but what exactly does that have to do with how well they would fit in as citizens of the state of Virginia? Because they display selfless valor in rushing the enemy, they'd make good neighbors?

56 posted on 11/14/2002 10:42:29 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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