In historic speech, Pope urges Italians to have more children to reverse declining birth rate

Associated Press ^ | 11-14-02 | NICOLE WINFIELD

[Oldeconomybuyer]

ROME (AP) --

[Chancellor Palpatine]

In human history, prosperity and idependence from institutions of church nd state come from a declining birthrate. When people have more children, they become more dependent on government and church services.

Its not a moral complaint on the part of the Pope, it is a lament of losing power.

[Irisshlass]

The Holy Father opposes capital punishment and, now, appears to advocate periodic sentence reductions.

What's next? One free rape? No penalty for five-finger discounts under a grand?

What lack of respect and prudence you have such a great man, warrior and saint...I'm disgusted..

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Get real. Wotyla's legacy is one of scandal, coverup and shame. Oh sure, there will be a few around like you who will revere him while rattling around in the few remaining parishes, but mercifully, you'll have no remaining impact on the cultural, social and political lives of Americans.

[RobbyS]

More than two decades ago, The German novelist Guenther Grass wrote a satire about the disappearance of the German Race because of birth control. It is no joke. The Germans depend on the state to provide for them in their old age, preferring to send their money in the form of high taxes to the government and spending the rest on houses, cars and vacations. By 2050, the few Germans left will depend on the Turks--who still value families-- to maintain their welfare system.

[RobbyS]

Ah yes, the American way of life. I see you have chosen your God. Ave Caesar!

[Irisshlass]

Get real. Wotyla's legacy is one of scandal, coverup and shame. Oh sure, there will be a few around like you who will revere him while rattling around in the few remaining parishes, but mercifully, you'll have no remaining impact on the cultural, social and political lives of Americans.

Christ said..Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of slander against you falsely because of me. Be glad and rejoice, for your reward in heaven is great."

We are living it..thank-you..It takes a real man and woman to swim against the current...

[Notwithstanding]

We are seriously considering moving to Italy with the armed forces of the US. All 8 of us! I can imagine the looks we would get tooling around town with our big happy family.....

[Notwithstanding]

Wow - the raging anti-C's are out in full force today. Such hatred would be laughable if it were not for the sorry state their souls must be in.

[patent]

Pope John Paul II delivered a historic speech to the Italian parliament Thursday, urging Italians to have more children to reverse the country's declining birth rate.

Man, can you imagine all the screaming that would go on if JPII spoke to Congress? Whoo boy! That would be a sight.

[pgkdan]

Think I saw data showing that Italy and Germany have zero popoulation growth. VERY bad news for the economies of those countries.

I'm going to try to find the article when I get home, but I read recently that Italy's birth rate among ethnic Italians is actually negative, but that their overall population is increasing at 2-3% per year and that by the year 2020 Italy would be a majority muslim nation unless the trends were reversed.

That tidbit of information was in an article about the grossly intrusive new mosque built in Rome, the one that the Pope had opposed building and had personally asked Rome's muslim leaders not to build.

[Gophack]

I believe that the Pope's position on capital punishment is that when there is an alternative method of punishment that would equally protect the public, i.e. secure prisons, that the life-affirming choice should always be made. However, he recognizes that there are some countries who can not, due to political and/or economic hardships, effectively imprison their violent offenders, and in those instances capital punishment would be the only solution to protect the lives of innocent citizens.

Personally, I believe capital punishment should be fair. It should be applied equally to those who commit particularly heinous crimes. It is sad that in our country, one mass murderer is put to death, and another isn't. Where is the justice in that? It's a crap shoot. I don't believe that the Pope's beliefs on capital punishment are mandatory to the deposit of faith, if someone has more information on this, I would be interested. Thanks.

[pgkdan]

Hello Sitetest...agree with all of your comments, I know precisely where you're coming from.

BTW, a little of topic here, but did you you notice in the latest issue of Columbia that teh ranks of our Order have been increased by 1 Governor of Fla?

[Desdemona]

Another thing to remember about childlessness is that some of us would be happy to add to the population of the western world, but have a hard time finding the other half. It's terrifying to be out there right now. There's a lot of people from the group between the end of the baby boom and the typical gen-Xers (born after Watergate) who are kind of lost in that regard. We were pushed in another direction. And now we really need to get moving on having families and just can't find other people in the same boat. It's especially contentious looking for people with the same values.

And it is true that many people who want(ed) more children don't have more because it just doesn't happen, not through any artificial means. I know a lot of those.

Then there are the materialists....

[Gophack]

I read an article that said if the Catholic Church sold every piece of art, every tract of land, everything it owned, it would run the world for two days.

You sound very much like the liberals who think the rich should be taxed at a much higher rate simply because they are rich.

[sitetest]

Dear Gophack,

"Personally, I believe capital punishment should be fair. It should be applied equally to those who commit particularly heinous crimes. It is sad that in our country, one mass murderer is put to death, and another isn't. Where is the justice in that? It's a crap shoot."

Well, there are competing ideas within the overall concept of justice.

One idea is, "Everyone who commits the same crime ought to receive the same punishment."

Thus, two individuals who steal a loaf of bread ought to receive the same punishment.

Another idea is, "Each person ought to receive the punishment that is appropriate to his crime given his own individual circumstances."

Thus, one individual steals a loaf of bread because he's too lazy to go through the checkout line, and the other because he has no money and his family is in need. Same crime, different circumstances, different judicial outcomes.

In capital cases, our judicial system emphasizes the latter idea rather than the former idea. And of course, that means that individual juries judge the individual merits of each individual case. Because individual juries do the judging, and because capital cases are relatively rare, it's impossible to achieve a high level of uniformity in these cases.

The alternative would be to say something like, "Everyone who is convicted of a murder objectively definable as capital will be executed."

Interestingly, this lack of admissibility of any sort of mitigating factors would work against the Holy Father's teaching on capital punishment. In some states, whether a person is likely to kill again is allowed as a factor in determining whether or not to impose a sentence of death. This is precisely in accord with the current Catechism. But such a consideration isn't allowable if we focus solely on the crime committed, and not the individual who committed it.


sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear pgkdan,

I haven't seen Columbia this month.

So Jeb took his First Degree?

:-)

sitetest

[pgkdan]

He sure did...his Lt Gov. was already a member. Check out the "Knights in Action" section...it's the first item. I have to admit, it made me very proud to see that!

[pgkdan]

Christ said..Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of slander against you falsely because of me. Be glad and rejoice, for your reward in heaven is great."

We are living it..thank-you..It takes a real man and woman to swim against the current...

Thank you for that Grace filled response...I was ready to reply to him in a much less graceful fashion.

[TopQuark]

This is very true, but I an not sure that the pill is what matters. It appears that the safety net in the old age has replaced many chilren previously necessary for that purpose. Another, more vague reason is an eveloving view of what constitutes the quality of life: observe that the educated stratum of society has a negative growth rate (the highly educated parents typically have one or few children).

[sinkspur]

Personally, I believe capital punishment should be fair. It should be applied equally to those who commit particularly heinous crimes. It is sad that in our country, one mass murderer is put to death, and another isn't. Where is the justice in that?

Murder is, or should be, a state issue. States that don't have capital punishment obviously will opt for life without parole.

If he were squeezed, the Pope would say that in "this day and age" capital punishment should almost never be an option. But, you're right, the issue is not part of the deposit of faith and one can disagree with the Pope on this one and still be a very good Catholic.