You Are a Suspect

NY TIMES via Drudge ^ | william safire

[DAnconia55]

You Are a Suspect
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

ASHINGTON — If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here is what will happen to you:
Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade your receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend — all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database."

[Abundy]

ROFL.......strawman argument! Red herring. They aren't looking for MY stuff and you know it. They already HAVE most of what they need of mine anyway, just from bank records.

No, not a strawman argument. He is telling you, in response to your question I believe, that he won't stop you from surrendering your Rights - but he will stop you from attempting to surrender his for him. He is also saying that while you might think it is a good idea to blindly give the Feds your information, he doesn't.

Your statement that they already have your information is, however, a red herring.

Answer the question - Do you believe you have the Right and/or Authority to force others to surrender their Rights specifically Protected by the Bill of Rights?

[Nuke'm Glowing]

LOL, you mean like the DUers do when faced with, OH MY GOD, "FACTS"...LOLOLOLOLOL

[Abundy]

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTT.... Sorry, wrong answer. Recon. 91. If you'd like a .jpg (that's a picture for the NEA retarded) of my medals, it's available. You are clueless. I was 50 miles behind enemy lines fighting in two battles (wars are declared, battles are not) when you were busy figuring out how to support us without having to pick up a gun. I would do it again in a heartbeat and may still have to if they need instructors in certrain fields in case this new war last longer. Don't even try to shove that "Religion of Peace" crap in my face as you and any 5 of your friends would eat it.

My story is to the point. I got 4 wounds from defending people like you to make an ass of themselves. I also learned how to be an expert capitalist. I also know what our Constitution means to everyone who has fought for it. If you want to give it up, then give up some blood for it. Otherwise get back into your minivan and open up some books. I would suggest the Federalist Papers as an opener and all of the writings of Jefferson. This country is not meant to be run by nor have a bunch of g.d. sheep voting for it's policies. The day that starts is the day that we are all headed down that road you don't have the guts to deal with. So get that microwave cranking and get those kids home from soccer practice quickly. I'm sure American Idol, or the Simpsons or some other mindless function awaits your evening.

ROTFLMAO...Testify Brother!

and try not to tax their limited resources with logic and facts...

[dirtboy]

ROFL.......strawman argument! Red herring. They aren't looking for MY stuff and you know it.

Once again, you have the right to divulge your personal information. You do NOT have the right to demand that I forfeit my 4th Amendment protections because it makes you sleep better at night. I'll make it even easier for you to be a good citizen, Howlin - have the feds create an opt-in system where you can notify them that you have NO problem with them searching your financial records at any time. Saves the trouble of photocopying and the cost of postage, plus the FBI doesn't have to re-key all that data. Give me a few minutes and I'll streamline the program further - maybe give you a variety of channels for contacting the FBI - phone, mail, e-mail or a website. Whatever makes it easiest for you to voluntarily give up your financial information - that is your right.

Now please explain to me why the feds should have the right to search MY financial records without a warrant - or are the words probable cause lost on you?

They already HAVE most of what they need of mine anyway, just from bank records.

No, Howlin, they don't. I work in the industry, OK? They currently get notified of any cash transactions in excess of $10,000. The Patriot act is slated to change that to any transaction with any business in any format or currency in excess of $10,000, but implementation has been delayed.

Please try to keep up with what has already been posted, Howlin, if you are going to add something meaningful to this thread. Otherwise, I'll just go about ignoring you as I am currently ignoring Deb.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

"This is such a non-issue, it's laughable. An evil government could do all the things you fear without you ever knowing a thing about it. The Bush people do everything out in the open, with full press coverage and dissenting voices."

NEA,NEA,NEA. (sorry, I did not mean to bring the discussion down to Deb's level)

"As it is, your fears of losing rights count for nothing against what is out there hiding. Sorry."

You know, my son complains about a monster under his bed. What Federal Agency handles that??

"I repeat...when you begin suffering under the yoke of government oppression, give us a shout."

Obviously Deb is not self-employed nor does she have a clue about an agency called the I-R-S. Duh.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

I have to agree. My attorney advised me NOT to accept any new .gov contracts until this is seriously put through major litigation.

[Howlin]

I refust to engage you in any type of converstaion, period..

My question is why are you even responding to me, since everybody here knows what YOUR impression of me and my intelligence is.

In fact, everybody here mostly knows what your impressions of FR and all its posters are. I'm surprised to see you here.

[fightu4it]

"a virtual, centralized grand database."

Could someone explain how this could actually work?

The amount of storage and cataloging would seem impossible. How many people would it take to operate such a system and where would the funding come from?

[dirtboy]

I refust to engage you in any type of converstaion, period..

Then why did you reply to him? And his response was polite, whereas yours is an attempt to make this thread abusive. Howlin, if you are trying to start a flame war, please take it somewhere else as well. This is a good, informative thread, not a pissing contest. I can't stop you from flaming, but I would hope you would be capable of some courtesy.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

"Don't you have to run along to soccer practice about now?

Are we suppose to take you serious after a remark like that?

Yes. It's moronic statements like Deb's that justify an appropriate response. I'm just "lowering" myself to that level to communicate. You know, it's like giving a bum a quarter so he'll go away>

"I'm glad to know YOU matter more than the country."

I've got 4 scars on my body from wounds in battle. I never proclaimed to know "MORE" than the country. I'm talking about individual rights. WTF have you done lately?

"Mind naiming the rights you've lost? Exactly."

As of this posting the 4th A-M-E-N-D-M-E-N-T (big word, but you can figure it out) is in danger. Care to figure out how?

[Nuke'm Glowing]

Wow, that story brings back memories....

[Nuke'm Glowing]

"What's the soccer score, Mom?"

LOL what's the difference, it's a tie!!!!

[dirtboy]

The amount of storage and cataloging would seem impossible. How many people would it take to operate such a system and where would the funding come from?

Give that man a cigar!

[Nuke'm Glowing]

"But is it really a Constitutional Right to not have anyone know what you buy at the store? I mean, do we have a Constitutional Right not to be overheard while talking? Not to have the cashier at the store know what we bought? Not to have anyone know what movies we go see? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really don't know what rights are being violated here."

There is a right at question here. I'm still plowing through the zillion responses, so I'm sure someone else has said this. It is not up to the government to do hunting expeditions to find out who is violating x,y, or z. If that were the case, every time you failed to put your seat belt on, on purpose or not, you would find a $50 deduction from your bank account. Think that's far fetched? It's not. By eliminating the right to reasonable search, etc., you are allowing the government, not a jury to dictate guilt in the long run. You would never face your accuser, nor have a right to. Think about it. How do you cross-examine an IBM mainframe?

[jejones]

So, these are temporary measures?

I'm sure they're every bit as temporary as, say, income tax withholding.

[iconoclast]

You are absolutely right on my friend.

[IMHO]

Yeah, Let's compare threats:

One side takes over half of my income

One side checks my bank accounts

One side tells me what language I can use

One side regulates my business life

One side regulates my private life

One side regulates my travel

One side compels my performance in uncountable ways, ultimately at the point of a gun.

One side wants to disarm me.

One side forces me to subsidize laziness, foreign dictators and immigrants, and sinful, immoral behavior.

One side has blown up countless people using my hard earned dollars....

The other side brutally killed some 3000 strangers and basically sits in a sandy wasteland on the other side of the planet.

Which is the immediate and ever-present threat to me?

Hmmm...lemme think about it...

[Nuke'm Glowing]

Thank you. Now that the .gov really knows who I am from that posting, I guess I'll be shipping off to Bragg soon to train some more idiots on how to keep their head down.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

You make it a requirement that private industry create the database with open fedgov access. Workable, maybe, legal, uh, no.

[Howlin]

No, it's not a good informative thread; it's a thread where you guys try to make those of us who agree with this action look unpatriotic.

And my remarks to Abundy stand.