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Democrat Website Shunned July Warning - Banned Dem Prophet!
freerepublic and a certain rat cellar | July 2002 | tlbshow originally

Posted on 11/08/2002 7:45:30 PM PST by parsifal

In July 2002, freeper tlbshow picked up on a thread on a certain rat underground website. It seems one of the dems had actually bothered to read Ann Coulter's book, "Slander" and thought her analysis of democratic and leftish problems was correct. The brave rat posted his/her thoughts on the dem website and drew a firestorm. The Dem article is reproduced here in full:

I just went to one of the "bad places." Is this the article you were referring to:

Ann Coulter is Right - And I Am Reeling" Posted by khangaskhan on Jul-03-02 at 11:46 PM

I just finished reading Ann Coulter's new book, Slander. As much as it pains me to admit, she is right. Not about our underlying philosophy, but about the way we politick. We Democrats, and particularly we Liberal Democrats, are far too busy name-calling and acting like elite self-righteous snobs, to dirty our hands with the problems of the working class. I do not say this lightly and am reluctant to say it at all for fear that it will end up on some right-wing moron website.

But the charges that Ann Coulter so devastatingly levels at us are true. If the only victims of our attacks were Republicans and the right wingers, then it would not matter. They deserve it. But I believe that we have almost fatally wounded ourselves as a party in the process. We do not debate fairly because we do not understand what we are all about. We substitute canards and slogans for thought.

Let me give you an example. I remember reading about a study of the Head Start program. The study noted that by the fourth grade, there were no significant differences between those students who attended Head Start and those who didn't. The Neanderthals, of course, wanted to discontinue funding for Head Start. And our side. . .the good guys. What was our response? Well, we called them neanderthals. How could they be right? They're neanderthals. They're greedy. They don't like poor children. They're racists.

Do you see our methodology? They rely on a study. They make a logical, cogent point. We simply call them names and rely upon our own reputation for self-righteousness. Then....we wonder why these guys are murdering us on talk radio. They understand just enough of the situation to be dangerous (and wrong). But do we "tell the rest of the story?" No. Do we respond with reason? Do we respond with logic? No. We are far too good for that. What would a liberal talk show host do, call Republicans names for two hours?

We are the "right kind of people", you see, and they aren't. And if you don't believe this, then read Slander. I expected to find a book of right-wing blonde-bimbo-babble. And through the first few pages I was not disappointed. But somewhere around page 10, I began to get an uncomfortable feeling. Coulter wasn't just calling us bad names—she was challenging us to debate. And debate on logical grounds. Read this, from page 10 and 11:

"But ad hominem attack is the liberal's idea of political debate. They self consciously hold themselves outside the argument and make snippy personal comments about anyone who is actually talking about something. The Republican's motives are analyzed, his intelligence critiqued, his personal life unearthed. If it were true that conservatives were racist, sexist, homophobic, fascist, stupid, inflexible, angry, and self-righteous, shouldn't their arguments be easy to deconstruct? Someone who is making a point out of anger, ideology, inflexibility, or resentment would presumably construct a flimsy argument. So why can't the argument itself be dismembered rather that the speaker's personal style or hidden motives? Why the evasions?"

And for the next 230 pages of text and voluminous detailed footnotes, Coulter fires salvo after salvo after salvo of truth and reality broadsides squarely amidships into us. By the end of the book, I was physically nauseated. I am not ashamed to admit that I spent the next few days in a kind of psychic shock. I even began to question whether I still believed in income redistribution, affirmative action, and gun control. The only thing that saved me was when I realized that the answer to Ann Coulter and all the other right wingers wasn't to agree with them or become them, but to simply learn how to HONESTLY DEBATE THEM. And the reason that we haven't been HONESTLY DEBATING THEM, is that we have lost touch with our Democratic roots. Ann Coulter isn't our problem, WE are our problem.

We really, on a personal level, do not know the problems of young black children and because we don't, we rely on a PROGRAM to save them. LET THEM EAT CAKE, we say. And when Marie Antoinette first said that, it wasn't a mean thing—she just didn't understand the problems of the poor. And neither do we Democrats. The point of Head Start, for example, isn't to perpetuate the Head Start program. The purpose is to provide an educational boost to underprivileged children. If the program doesn't work, then we need to change the program. If the other side points out that the program isn't working, then we should thank them. What vested interest do we Democrats have in a program that doesn't work? None.

I have long thought that our Democratic leaders have lost touch with the grass roots. How else do you explain Democratic support for NAFTA, the Bankruptcy Reform Bill, the welfare program reductions, the increased use of the death penalty, tax reductions for the wealthy, and the Democratic failure to pass meaningful living wage legislation and the failure to provide for national health care.

In our impotent rage, we simply, well, rage. But that rage can be better utilized to accomplish some good. I believe that all of us need to read the Coulter book. I think it is almost a rite of passage for us. We need to come to grips with our failures before we can take back the Congress and White House. DON'T BUY THE BOOK, just check it out at the library, or borrow it from somebody. Pick up a copy on the $1.00 shelf at Books-a-Million in few months when the new has worn off. Do not support her, but do please read her. And after you finish, let's you and I roll up our sleeves and go to work. We need to return to our roots.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: anncoulter; groupthink; nazidemocratleft
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To: parsifal
Guy is goofy He admits they don't know what they stand for , that the conservatives use studies to prove their point then remains a liberal
What am I missing
41 posted on 11/08/2002 8:39:37 PM PST by uncbob
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To: parsifal
khangaskhan's liberal and smart, not that fake "attitude" smart, but really smart. How strange. Explains why they banned him?

. The point of Head Start, for example, isn't to perpetuate the Head Start program. The purpose is to provide an educational boost to underprivileged children. If the program doesn't work, then we need to change the program. If the other side points out that the program isn't working, then we should thank them. What vested interest do we Democrats have in a program that doesn't work? None.

42 posted on 11/08/2002 8:40:17 PM PST by GOPJ
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To: parsifal
And the reason that we haven't been HONESTLY DEBATING THEM, is that we have lost touch with our Democratic roots. Ann Coulter isn't our problem, WE are our problem.

Of course this guy can't figure out the reason WE CAN'T HONESTLY DEBATE THEM is because we are wrong
43 posted on 11/08/2002 8:42:07 PM PST by uncbob
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To: RANGERAIRBORNE
(I work with 90% liberals).

90% of rangers airborne are liberals?

44 posted on 11/08/2002 8:45:28 PM PST by coloradan
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To: parsifal
Parsy, I know that it infuriates you to realize the rats on that site cannot see your wisdom and shun you.

They call us nazi's and a lot of other adjectives (too numerous to mention), but they, in fact, do the things that they say that we do.

You now know that it is a lie. (Unfortunately they actually believe that lie)

We (republicans) do most of the things they say we are lacking. They (democrats)do most of the things that we are accused of.

Amazing how the politics of diversion and lies work.(but that is the definition of politics) Too bad the democrats are so buried in their own BS that they cannot see what is happening within.

At one time, they were a honest and worthwhile foe. Now they are liers, thieves, desperate and generally f'ked up. I really wish they would get their crap together. I hate to argue with a child.

(:D)I-<
45 posted on 11/08/2002 8:47:03 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: parsifal
Thanks for the post. Whether it is true or disinformation, it was an interesting read.
46 posted on 11/08/2002 8:49:21 PM PST by Dec31,1999
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To: GOPJ
I guess he/she/it was banned for saying something nice about Ann Coulter. Either that, or skinner or elad has a relative who works for Headstart.Maybe they are afraid brains are contagious. parsy.
47 posted on 11/08/2002 8:50:25 PM PST by parsifal
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To: Dec31,1999
Oh, its true. You can search here on FR under the title and pull up the original thread. parsy.
48 posted on 11/08/2002 8:52:32 PM PST by parsifal
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To: wirestripper
At one time, they were a honest and worthwhile foe

I dunno about that
I started getting interested in politics in 68 ( was a democrat because my father was )and it didn't take long to see that they were disonest corrupt and did just what Ann Coulter said they do.

I also remember reading that during Hoovers term at the beginning of the Great Depression he tried to pass some of the same type of legislation FDR later did to help get the economy moving and the democrats stifled it so they could win the WH
49 posted on 11/08/2002 8:52:45 PM PST by uncbob
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To: parsifal
BTW! Since only paid members can get in now, perhaps you can keep us abreast of activities. FReep mail me if something is up. (likely nothing will be of much interest) LOL!
50 posted on 11/08/2002 8:53:47 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: Poser; parsifal
The liberals on that site are not interested in debate.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. It isn't a debate site, really, it's more like an extended therapy session. They're out of touch with the mainstream, dontcha know, proud individualists, noncomformists, and God help any one of them who deviates from the party line. Weird.

Kangaskhan would be more comfortable here at FR, frankly. He/she'd take some heat but would also be defended by conservatives not afraid of ideas. (Also, it's a great place to keep tabs on the ones we're gonna rub out when the Revolution comes, like parsy the toast over there...)

51 posted on 11/08/2002 8:53:54 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: parsifal
The funny thing is, the author basically admits that the Conservatives have the facts, the intelligent debate, and the good reasoning, but he still thinks they are bad (presumably because they make him feel uncomfortable about his intellectual foundations) and prefers to adhere to his liberal beliefs.

No learning took place here, just a reassessment of tactics.

52 posted on 11/08/2002 8:54:36 PM PST by RogueIsland
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To: wirestripper
No, it isn't like that. I never expect to be called "wise" and would prefer to be considered a fool. What irritated me over at DU was the way they slapped down any non-dem-establishment thought. A lot of polite freepers have been banned there for simply pointing out that Clinton is a piece of cr*p crooked liar. (And Bill is, too.) As a dem, I would like to be able to make constructive criticisms about my own party without excommunication. parsy the fool.
53 posted on 11/08/2002 8:56:11 PM PST by parsifal
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To: parsifal
Gather your children. Your children are the sheeple who believe the Democrats and vote for them. Teach them lovingly and they will support you instead.
54 posted on 11/08/2002 8:56:12 PM PST by Dec31,1999
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To: parsifal
I see that the libs are still dictating as usual. No sense in giving ordinary people the credit to think on their own.
55 posted on 11/08/2002 8:57:57 PM PST by For the Unborn
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To: parsifal
The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is that Liberalism is based on emotion and Conservatism is based on logic. This basic difference is manifested in how the two sides debate the issues. Liberals debate an issue emotionally, which means "Republican's motives are analyzed, his intelligence critiqued, his personal life unearthed." In other words, all emotional arguments. Conservatives, on the other hand, debate issues logically by citing facts, studies, data etc.

The problem for Liberals is that if they want to debate issues logically, they have to abandon their emotional attachment to the issues. But once Liberals abandon their emotional attachment to the issues and start to think about the issues logically, it will force them to logically assess their basic beliefs. This is the path most Liberals turned Conservatives have taken, which is why it is hard to find a Liberal that can debate issues logically instead of emotionally. Most Liberals who have made the transition from emotional arguments to logical arguments are already Conservatives.
56 posted on 11/08/2002 8:58:00 PM PST by Badger1
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To: uncbob
interested in politics in 68

..Actually, it has been longer than that if you want to find the turning point. Try the 40s!

57 posted on 11/08/2002 8:58:18 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: Billthedrill
I tried to get the dude's email address and I was going to invite him/her to FR to embarass *U, among other things, but I could not visit the *U profile page without jeopardizing my longtime secret identity over there. parsy.
58 posted on 11/08/2002 8:59:11 PM PST by parsifal
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To: Paradox
I had roughly the same experience when I became a conservative. It wasn't an easy road.

I still remember the day that I decided to leave them forever. I was sitting with my newborn son watching CNN, and there was one of those typically bitter feminists talking about abortion in such a casual way that it made me physically ill. I could not reconcile my feelings as a father with what the party stood for, and it was at that moment that I understood how unfeeling and inhuman they really were. I could not go back.

59 posted on 11/08/2002 9:00:48 PM PST by Reactionary
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To: parsifal
The author is a confused young person whose heart is in the right place, but who, although he doesn't quite realize it, is only now learning how to think. The Left has depended upon such persons for foot soldiers ever since Rousseau.

Most eventually escape at some point or another, to one degree or another, and it looks like this writer is on the verge of his own getaway.

60 posted on 11/08/2002 9:03:18 PM PST by beckett
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