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AAAS Board Resolution Urges Opposition to "Intelligent Design" Theory in U.S. Science Classes
AAAS ^ | November 6, 2002 | Ginger Pinholster

Posted on 11/07/2002 7:07:47 PM PST by Nebullis

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To: Physicist
I you have time I would appreciate your opinion:
The CTMU and Intelligent Design
41 posted on 11/07/2002 9:04:06 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: sallymag
luddites!
42 posted on 11/07/2002 9:07:26 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Heartlander
I = If (long night and knee-jerk response)
43 posted on 11/07/2002 9:08:22 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: Nebullis
WASHINGTON, Nov 7 (Reuters) - U.S. officials have approved OraSure Technologies' (OSUR) OraQuick HIV test, a blood test that delivers results in as little as 20 minutes, Health and Human Service Secretary Tommy Thompson said on Thursday.

We're supposed to keep the actual viral coat peptides confidential, but I suppose if someone were familiar enough with the literature and had a little background knowledge, they could figure it out pretty quickly.

44 posted on 11/07/2002 9:30:10 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: RonF
Scientifically: ..... Theologically:...

BINGO! We have a Bingo! This is almost exactly my approach when I'm discussing this.

That being said, I believe ID is far more viable as a theory than many of the Theoretical Physics and Cosmology hypotheses I've listened to the past 20 years which attempt to "wrap up the loose ends". It seems a nod must be given in the classroom to the failure of the Darwinians to wrap up many loose ends despite many attempts to do so, and that some good scientists believe ID is a possible way out.

This type of teaser: telling future scientists that there is more yet to be discovered, is all to the good, not a death knell for science.

45 posted on 11/07/2002 9:36:02 PM PST by AFPhys
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To: CalConservative
Excellent post, CC. The smell of fear is all over the AAAS. ID is rigorously scientific and they know it. In fact, it's far more scientific than neo-Darwinism in any of its many incarnations.
46 posted on 11/07/2002 9:37:08 PM PST by Bonaparte
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To: CalConservative
Maybe you aren't talking to the right people. I just had dinner last month with a research microbiologist from a relatively large university and he was telling me how he uses design concepts in a predictive capacity for his research work on bacteria.

You're lucky to find a biologist who will even discuss the concept. It's rare to find anyone who does work in biology who's even curious about design. It doesn't bring anything to the table.

Divine intervention is another discussion entirely, though. ;)

47 posted on 11/07/2002 9:37:59 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Bonaparte
The smell of fear is all over the AAAS.

That's because the anti-science crowd could destroy our civilization in 2 generations if science has to bow before theology on every issue. You'll notice its not working well in Islamic countries and not much better anywhere else.

48 posted on 11/07/2002 9:50:07 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Nebullis
Young Earth Creationist bump for reading in the morning
49 posted on 11/07/2002 9:50:49 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
...OraQuick HIV test...

Ok. Yours is an immunoassay. p24 is something different.

50 posted on 11/07/2002 9:51:29 PM PST by Nebullis
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To: Nebullis
To: f.Christian

Have you heard the story going around about the bio prof in a well-known NorthEast university who is speaking about evolution and notices three guys snickering in the back of the room? "You guys must be fundamentalist Christians" snorts the professor. One of the three replies "No, we're math majors; like, we understand the laws of probability..."



17 posted on 9/27/02 11:07 AM Pacific by piltdownpig


51 posted on 11/07/2002 9:51:57 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Physicist
You obviously have not been reading the vast amount of literature that the ID'ers have published...or your head is in the sand.

Sorry for the bluntness, but anti-ID'ers are just not paying attention. The Darwinian Ark is full of holes, and sinking fast.

52 posted on 11/07/2002 9:53:42 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: LiteKeeper
To: BMCDA

Ohhhh! I see, you just have to have faith. And if you have faith it's automatically true. Nice trick ;-D

Atheism requires an active belief system. Since no absolute evidence refutes God’s existence, one is required to reject (and reject and reject). A belief without absolute facts requires faith. Does your faith and belief make it true?


351 posted on 8/28/02 5:08 PM Pacific by Heartlander



53 posted on 11/07/2002 9:54:34 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
My guess is gp41.
54 posted on 11/07/2002 9:58:06 PM PST by Nebullis
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
"...if science has to bow before theology..."

Do you maintain that The Design Inference is a treatise on theology? (I'm assuming that you've actually read and understood what you are characterizing.)

55 posted on 11/07/2002 9:59:31 PM PST by Bonaparte
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To: Nebullis
I think you're probably too advanced for me. You were up on the cyanobacteria thing about 6 months before it showed up in print.

We have our own internal names for the peptides we use, so I'd have to get help translating it to a public name. I know we use bacillus megatarium to grow one of them. I'm not sure if the other one comes out of the e. coli culture or not. I've been in the suite for the harvests though. PU.

56 posted on 11/07/2002 10:02:16 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Bonaparte
Recent articles worth noting:

Becoming a Disciplined Science: Prospects, Pitfalls, and a Reality Check for ID

Evolutionary Logic

57 posted on 11/07/2002 10:05:18 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: LiteKeeper
Thanks for the updates, LiteKeeper. It's always refreshing to hear from Bill Dembski.
58 posted on 11/07/2002 10:10:28 PM PST by Bonaparte
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To: CalConservative
I just had dinner last month with a research microbiologist from a relatively large university and he was telling me how he uses design concepts in a predictive capacity for his research work on bacteria. Now I'm a geologist, not a biologist, so some of the in-depth discussion was hard for me to follow, but the gist of it was that he is able to use reverse engineering as you would with any machine that is designed or like software for that matter, and making discoveries that he is able to publish on.

But whenever I read a description of some aspect of evolution, invariably the author (even if they're a scientist!) will lapse into the metaphor of writing as if the species was trying to solve a problem and so evolved some functionality.

Random mutation & natural selection is a design process. There's no evidence that there's any person per se behind it all, but it's a design process nonetheless. So analyzing a successful biological system as if someone had designed it is kind of a tautology. (Not that there's anything wrong with tautologies!)

Furthermore, he also discussed the design parameters of various bacteria functions and why many of these functions cannot operate without the presence of many (and in the case of some components, up to 50) specialized genes. If any of these genes are missing, that component cannot exist or function. His work has led him to believe that it is impossible to simulaneously evolve 50 specialized genes to give the bacteria this component and there are no intermediate functionalities that could use only some of the genes while the others "evolve' to produce the final function. What is left? Weak arguments for "puncuated equilibrium?"

The same argument could be made to prove that the modern free market economy must have been consciously designed by someone in charge to work the way it does. But any non-communist understands that economies evolve - even though it's made up of quite intelligent people who would happily try to design whole industries from scratch if they had the power. That should give one pause when considering the implications of Irreducible Complexity.

59 posted on 11/07/2002 10:11:12 PM PST by jennyp
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To: Bonaparte
Another answer to a critic by Bill Dembski

Elliott Sober's Independent Evidence Requirement for Design

60 posted on 11/07/2002 10:15:51 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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