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Ditch Your friends alert !!!!(Pak to acquire anti-ballistic missile from US)
The Indian Express ^ | 5th Nov 2002 | Press Trust of India

Posted on 11/05/2002 4:40:14 AM PST by akash

Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf has approved the acquisition of an anti-ballistic missile system from the US, at an estimated over 1.5 billion dollars, to be deployed at key sensitive installations and nuclear facilities, Kyodo news agency quoting authoritative defence sources reported on Tuesday.

The sources told the Japanese agency, on condition of anonymity, that the defence ministry has narrowed down its choices to the Patriot Air Defence System, the Nike Hercules missiles and the Hawk missile system.

The deal is estimated to cost more than 1.5 billion dollars and would be in addition to the military purchase that Pakistan has been negotiating with the US under the aegis of the Pakistan-US Defence Consultative Group, which met in Islamabad in September this year.

Washington has lifted a 1990 ban on supply of military equipment to Pakistan after Musharraf backed the US in its war against terrorism following the Sept 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in the US.

The sources said preliminary talks have been held with the US, which reportedly has expressed its willingness to supply an anti-missile system to Pakistan to discourage further missile proliferation in the region.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: india; islam; missile; missiledefence; pakistan; us
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It has been a bad day in the war on terror and this piece of news takes the icing on the cake. Seems like the US thinks it can win the war on terror by feeding of the carcasses of its allies.
1 posted on 11/05/2002 4:40:14 AM PST by akash
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To: akash; swarthyguy; keri; AM2000; Dog Gone; anu_shr; spetznaz
Ping !!!
2 posted on 11/05/2002 4:41:47 AM PST by akash
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To: akash
Nike-Hercules? How old is that system? Didn't the US get rid of that system in the 1970s? And the Hawk system definitely is not anti-ballistic missile capable. I'm not sure about the accuracy of this story.
3 posted on 11/05/2002 5:12:22 AM PST by michaelt
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To: akash
The Paks exacted a stiff price for their 'cooperation' in the WOT; I'm sure this deal has been on the table for over a year.
4 posted on 11/05/2002 5:39:10 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: akash
It has been a bad day in the war on terror and this piece of news takes the icing on the cake. Seems like the US thinks it can win the war on terror by feeding of the carcasses of its allies.

How do you figure that? Why wouldn't you want these guys to have an ABM system? Remember even Reagan suggested that SDI could have a peaceful impact if it was shared.

If we are targets of "rogue states" tehn so is Pakistan. And if they only have a few nukes for deterrence, then they're more likely to hav to use them if hit by, say, Iraq. And if they are fully decked out in PAC-3 missiles, if we want to wipe Pakistan out, well, we still could in a heartbeat.

This is a GREAT deal.

5 posted on 11/05/2002 5:44:07 AM PST by sam_paine
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To: michaelt
Nike-Hercules? How old is that system? Didn't the US get rid of that system in the 1970s? And the Hawk system definitely is not anti-ballistic missile capable.

Who cares if we sell them a bunchajunk? It may be the old PAC-1 shrapnel system like was used to some success in Israel in 91. We may keep the good stuff to protect us from Mexico!

6 posted on 11/05/2002 5:47:35 AM PST by sam_paine
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To: akash
Does anyone know how reliable this source is?
7 posted on 11/05/2002 5:59:55 AM PST by dalebert
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To: akash
This is a good thing. This shifts the balance in the India/Paksitan conflict toward Paksitan.

India has been lukewarm (at best) in their support of the war on terror. Pakistan has been a big help (and took a pretty big risk domesticly to do so.)

This sends a pretty clear message that we will stand by those countries that stand by us. It also sends a message to countries (like India) that haven't stood by us, that we aren't going to stand by them.

India's leaders are probably asking themselves "what do we need to do to equal back up the balance of power between India and Pakistan?" The answer is pretty clear. Start cooperating with the US war on terror.

8 posted on 11/05/2002 6:02:03 AM PST by Brookhaven
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To: Brookhaven
India has killed more jihadis than America has in the WOT. India has been fighting the WOT for decades now. They also let jets refuel during Gulf War I. Please do a little research before spouting off your prejudices.
9 posted on 11/05/2002 6:06:04 AM PST by BullDog108
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To: sam_paine
Got news for you, for the most part, Pakistan IS a rogue state...just a nuclear tipped one.
10 posted on 11/05/2002 7:15:56 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: Brookhaven
Yup, that's why the US Airforce looked the other way while they evacted several hundred paki fighters out of the Taliban strongholds. Least you forget, THEY created the Taliban.
11 posted on 11/05/2002 7:17:08 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: Brookhaven
Your analysis is crap.
12 posted on 11/05/2002 7:28:04 AM PST by USMMA_83
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To: michaelt
Quite. These are SAM systems, designed to shoot down intruding planes. Only the Patriot also has a limited low level anti-missle capability - and it was designed as a SAM, is still used as one, and modified for the later role.

The article writer probably saw the word "Patriot" and associated it with shooting down Scuds in the Gulf War, and assumed the others were things like it. They aren't. We have done a lot of work on missle defenses in the last 10 years, and there are a number of much more capable systems than Patriot these days. None of these is one of them.

"Pakistan seeks SAM deal with US" would have been a more accurate headline.

13 posted on 11/05/2002 7:33:45 AM PST by JasonC
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To: akash
If this is true, then all hell is going to break out in Forign Policy circles in India and US. I leaning towards this being totally untrue. The US is not going to sell missles to Pak only to see China copy the technology. If this is true, I can assure you that the Saudi's and Islamists getting a crude from of sheild thereby tormenting Israel even more. Remember that the Paks and Saudi's are strategic allies. There are reports that Pak is supplying nuke tech to the Saudis.

I don't want to believe this report...implications are scary!!!

14 posted on 11/05/2002 7:35:48 AM PST by USMMA_83
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To: akash; All
Somebody please tell me why this isn't one of the stupidest moves we've ever made in our dealings with Pakistan.

The country is a basket case and extremely unstable and *probably* always will be. The last thing they need is military hardware of any sort, and anti-missile defense won't help stabilize the region in any way. In fact, it might destabilize the whole of SA. Would these defense systems protect Pakistan against India's missiles? If so, then what happens to India's MAD policy which they use as deterrence? Any time now, our "friend" Musharraf could be overthrown by the mullahs and jihadis in Pakistan, and yes, they would nuke India in a second.

IF this story is true, the deal has been on the table since September of last year. Now I understand exactly why the Indians went to the Israelis for help.

15 posted on 11/05/2002 7:56:39 AM PST by keri
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To: Stavka2
Got news for you, for the most part, Pakistan IS a rogue state...just a nuclear tipped one.

Ok, for the most part, finish your thought!

So let's say Pakistan is a rogue state. Let's say tomorrow Osama himself takes over Pakistan, with a dozen ICBM's and a full fledged ABM system to protect them.

Israel still has sufficient nukes to overwhelm and destroy Pakistan on its own, ABMs or not. Not to mention that the US could not be blackmailed with such a worst case scenario. Pakistan could be turned to a greasy glass smudge by the US before they got their first demands on AlJazeera.

Ok, now let's be realistic.

Pakistan relies on MAD right now without a key component, namely, "ASSURED DESTRUCTION." Pakistan CANNOT guarantee with its meager arsenal that it can obliterate attackers. If India or Iraq invades or feints invasion, then Pakistan has no choice but to shoot its wad, but folks like Saddam might be tempted to think they should try anyway cuz they'll probably be able to survive and then Pakistan will be defenseless. Very bad, and very touchy.

So, let's figure out the following. If Pakistan can reduce an attacker's chance of success, then they effectively multiply their force arsenal....but without additional nukes. HINT: THIS IS A GOOD THING!

The only alternative for Pakistan and others is to continually raise the stakes in a multi-lateral MAD game...Middle East style...and that ain't good.

The plan of SELLING them the old hardware while upgrading ours...sounds like some bright thinkers in the White House to me.

16 posted on 11/05/2002 8:27:55 AM PST by sam_paine
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To: keri
Somebody please tell me why this isn't one of the stupidest moves we've ever made in our dealings with Pakistan.

Start with #16 and let me know what you think.

17 posted on 11/05/2002 8:30:29 AM PST by sam_paine
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To: JasonC
We have done a lot of work on missle defenses in the last 10 years, and there are a number of much more capable systems than Patriot these days.

Well, the Patriots used in the Gulf War were indeed ancient anti-aircraft technology with shrapnel warheads...shotgun approach. This popular name is continued on to the new generation PATRIOT ADVANCED CAPABILITY - 3 (PAC-3) missile which is Hit-to-Kill and includes far more advanced and integrated radar. So technically, the PAC-2 and PAC-3 are also Patriot programs, but there are plenty of other from BMDO.

I doubt W is talking about selling the Paks PAC-3 technology, but why not sell them some old technology to prtect them long enough to help keep them from launching retaliatory nukes?

18 posted on 11/05/2002 8:36:29 AM PST by sam_paine
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To: sam_paine
"If India or Iraq invades or feints invasion, then Pakistan has no choice but to shoot its wad, but folks like Saddam might be tempted to think they should try anyway cuz they'll probably be able to survive and then Pakistan will be defenseless."

India I understand....but Iraq? You do know that Saddam has to go through Turkey/Iran and Afganistan to get to Pakistan right?
BTW: On 9/12 India told the US to use any of its space for its war on Terror. Much before Pakistan was arm twisted into it. I think it was a bit premature on Indias part to do so.....because doing so left no option to Pakistan...it had to give in to the US or face the combined might of India and superpower USA.
19 posted on 11/05/2002 8:48:33 AM PST by ChackoV
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To: sam_paine
Pakistan CANNOT guarantee with its meager arsenal that it can obliterate attackers.
But Pakistan can, right now with its' meager arsenal obliterate millions of Indians, right?

I don't follow missile defense systems, and my ignorance of military toys and hardware is complete, but I fail to see how this is a good thing. I don't think it makes the Indians feel a bit better knowing we are selling anti-missile systems to a country whose citizens have publicly called for nuking Indian cities.

I also disagree this particular sale will do anything to stop missile proliferation. That, IMHO, is a very dangerous assumption in this situation.

20 posted on 11/05/2002 8:54:58 AM PST by keri
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