WSJ: Ford auto sales plunge 31% GM sales sink 32%, Chrysler’s 35%

MSNBC.Com / Wall Street Journal ^ | 11/02/2002 | Wall Street Journal

[Bobby777]

Vehicle sales plunge in October

Big 3 automakers’ figures drop over 30 percent vs. last year

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

DETROIT, Nov. 1 — Auto sales fell in October, despite stepped up interest-free financing and other discounts, amid tough comparisons with an unusually robust performance a year earlier.

[tm22721]

Engineers were hurt by the increased rate of productivity in design and manufacturing tools in the late 80s and 90s.

That trend has now slowed...and what goes round comes around. Engineering demand and salaries will be increasing as the supply dries up. Even with the competition from H1Bs the demand picture looks good.

And the whole reason is that Gen X and Y don't want to study or work as hard as their baby boomer parents.

BUMP

[HamiltonJay]

Admittedly I have never bought a new car, and probably never will. Right now I am looking to buy a "new" vehicle (be it used or new) The financing of 0% is attractive on new car, but at a price for anything reasonably decent at roughly 15k even 0% does not make it attractive enough for me to take the depreciation hit.

I personally think Auto sales are a better indicator of the state of the economy than anything else. Right now there are a lot of "slightly used" vehicles out there, all the H1-B losing their jobs and their new cars, as well as just joe american. I think things are getting a bit better, but still a glut.

[HamiltonJay]

Yes, somewhere along the line "free trade" somehow got intertwined into conservatism... which is patently wrong. Free Trade is one of the biggest frauds ever perpetrated on america... but way to many "conservatives" will not accept that notion, regardless of the facts.

[RLK]

No stimulus package, regardless of amount of party backing, could satisfy union greed. If union jobs are being replaced by robots and moved out of the country, you have greedy unions to blame more than anything else.

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That's shallow rote-memorized bullcrap that's repeated by boring conservatives who are their own, and my, worst enemy. A lot of clowns believe working people should still be paid little or nothing and be kept broke buying from the company store, then still have enough money to buy automobiles while company executives make millions. A market economy doesn't work like that.

[Woodman]

The main problem is the price of all new cars is too high. First consumers were lulled into excepting it through cheaper monthly leases and then the found out leases don't buy you anything. The reason I will not buy a new car is because anything I would consider buying is $30,000 or more. I can buy the same car 3 years old for less than half of that, I mean for cryin out load "A car is transportation not a lifestyle statement" some people are now beginning to figure this out.

[Woodman]

I couldn't agree with you more. I do the exact thing you described to a T. The only difference being I get my used cars below wholesale and sometimes even sell them for a profit 4 years later.

[FormerLurker]

Sorry for the numerous typos in #104. My eyes were blurry from lack of sleep, and were crossed due to the nature of the post I was responding to...

[RLK]

Let me add to my initial statement. Too many conservatives are spoiled kids who don't want to pay reasonable prices for anything, then are surprized to find out the people they decline to pay decent wages to are incapable of affording their products and services. I'm getting disgusted with hearing it. In too many cases people calling themselves conservatives are nothing more than shallow spoiled brats who think they are the only people who should get paid anything whole others should work for nearly free.

[Woodman]

You should consider retraining for either a Project Manager position or QA Manager. In the right circumstances you will make more than twice any job on that list within 3 years.

[FormerLurker]

And the whole reason is that Gen X and Y don't want to study or work as hard as their baby boomer parents.

Have you ever worked in a engineering discipline, or are you just repeating what you've "heard" on the Internet? I've seen MANY engineers who have worked long days and on weekends while getting paid on salary. I've seen people who have put their jobs ahead of anything else in their lives. MANY of them are now unemployed.

On every project that I've worked on, there have been unrealistically tight deadlines and enourmous pressure to produce well designed functional software within those deadlines. That is the way management viewed a project, where many times it didn't matter if it were close to impossible, they would expect people to simply put in whatever hours necessary to meet deadlines that were ALWAYS tight and MANY times seriously underestimated. That is why Microsoft and other major players almost ALWAYS was behind schedule on any major release, and those new releases had many "bugs".

For one who has never walked in my shoes to tell me that I'm out of work because I'm from Gen XYZ and that generation Gen XYZ is less than productive makes me want to smack my monitor. You like several others here have no clue at all as to what you're talking about.

[FormerLurker]

You should consider retraining for either a Project Manager position or QA Manager. In the right circumstances you will make more than twice any job on that list within 3 years.

1. They are looking for people with management experience. I have none.
2. Most if not all software management positions are filled internally.
3. Many management positions are now being filled by workers on H1-B visas.

[lelio]

A market economy doesn't work like that
That's the second comment on this thread that I wholeheartedly believe in, and have recently come around to. When did "conservatism" become a synomonous with rich kids that demand cheap prices and profits and if that means that people in the US get laid off for cheap labor in a communist state well that's okay.
Maybe we need some "New Republicans" that will work to secure American business and to work on solutions for foreign companies that can dump their goods here. For example, how is Boeing ever going to compete with Airbus when they're owned by the state, can loose money forever, and just give their planes away?

[RLK]

For example, how is Boeing ever going to compete with Airbus when they're owned by the state, can loose money forever, and just give their planes away?

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As nearly asi I can tell from statements made by Boeing president Mulally, Boeing is leaving the aircrat manuacturing business and will be primarily involved in sales and coordination. The manufacturing work will be done overseas.

[Woodman]

1. They are looking for people with management experience. I have none.
2. Most if not all software management positions are filled internally.
3. Many management positions are now being filled by workers on H1-B visas

1. You have to start sometime, why not now? Of course you will be taking a pay cut that is why I had the 3 year time frame.
2. I consistantly find positions not filled internally because many companies have realized that the internal route causes too many inbred problems.
3. Although I do see many H-1 employees out there, I have experience at many major firms and have yet to see an H-1 in a management position. I not saying there are none out there, but I'm not seeing that trend.

As an aside, I took a 50% pay cut to get into this industry 10 years ago, I do not have a tech degree and I am more than doubling everyone on that list except for the Pharmacist.

[lelio]

Boeing is leaving the aircrat manuacturing business
Well that would explain their top secret plan "Project Heartland" to convert their Renton WA facilities into condos.

[lelio]

I consistantly find positions not filled internally because many companies have realized that the internal route causes too many inbred problems.
I'll echo that finding: an ambitious friend of mine was fed up with sending a resume to the company and never hearing anything back. So he went the cold calling route and found the people in charge and talked to them. A majority of the time the PM of some software project had an internal job open that he wants to fill but doesn't want to dot the i's and cross the t's by going the HR route. Granted it is all contract work, but that's better than nothing.

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

When all the high pay manufacturing jobs are finally shipped overseas to escape taxes and regulation, the U.S. companies will find that they have no U.S. customers that can afford to buy their products. I know ... and who will the politicians collect taxes from? ... we're going to be a huge welfare nation and dang quick ... 2003 ought to be interesting ... and 2004 ...

No way guys. The people who build the cars don't pay squat in taxes. It is the guys who design them and make the big decisions who are forking it over. The top 5% of managers at the car firms pay more in taxes than the remaining 95%. That is why when Bush cut taxes for everyone at 3%, most of the money goes to the weathier tax payers.

The trend in industrialized nations is to replace braun with brains. Jobs don't move overseas to attract intelligent engineers, they do it to get cheap labour. This is why the US leads the world in technology of all kinds. The question is what do you do?

Those of you who say a welfare state is what will result might just be right. Unemployed people get desperate and desperate people vote for democrats. The other choice is for government to spend more money on education and retraining, to help those who lose their jobs find a place in our economy. When the government spends my tax dollars on investing in the future of America, I don't mind so much.

As for the protectionism that is being advocated here by some, it always hurts those it is most supposed to help. The Great Depression was exacerbated by it. We need a safety net that springs back, not a spiders web.

[Woodman]

I know of at least 5 available at my current employer. Went to an in-house Job Fair 2 weeks ago and saw about 300 people in line, at least 1/2 of them were H-1 or other visa holders. BTW after that there are still 5 positions.

[Woodman]

Let me clarify something. That is 5 in my department, we employ about 0.6% of the firm's total.

[lelio]

BTW after that there are still 5 positions.
I find that's the case as the is absolutely no one at a company that can make a decision and press ahead with a plan. Everyone's busy practicing CYA and with all squishing down the corporate pyramid now you have to talk to your 10 colleagues on the same level before hiring someone vs. just talking to your boss. Its all highly inefficient.