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To: Desdemona
As far as the perpetual virginity of Mary goes (which is why most people insist that the "brothers and sisters of Jesus" were children of Joseph from a previous marriage), this would have required that she never have sex with Joseph. But it's clear from Matthew that Joseph did, indeed, have sex with Mary. He just waited until after Jesus was born.
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us." When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
--Matthew 1:22-25

199 posted on 11/01/2002 2:07:28 PM PST by aruanan
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To: aruanan
What translation are you using because that's not what mine says.

You're not going to get me to deny Mary's perpetual virginity, so don't even try.
205 posted on 11/01/2002 2:10:05 PM PST by Desdemona
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To: aruanan
Matthew does not say that...when the angel appeared to Joseph he said to take her as his wife...not "to go into"...

Genesis 30
3 She said, "(1) Here is my maid Bilhah, go in to her that she may (2) bear on my knees, that (3) through her I too may have children."
4 So (4) she gave him her maid Bilhah as a wife, and Jacob went in to her.
16 When Jacob came in from the field in the evening, then Leah went out to meet him and said, "You must come in to me, for I have surely hired you with my son's mandrakes." So he lay with her that night.

Genesis 16
2 So Sarai said to Abram, "Now behold, the LORD has prevented me from bearing children. (1) Please go in to my maid; perhaps I will obtain children through her." And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai.

Genesis 16
3 After Abram had lived (1) ten years in the land of Canaan, Abram's wife Sarai took Hagar the Egyptian, her maid, and gave her to her husband Abram as his wife.
4 He went in to Hagar, and she conceived; and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her sight

Joseph who already betrothed to Mary...legally married...had to put her death for adultery, condemn her put her away...but the angel spoke to him and said do not fear..take her as your wife...the angel did not say to go into..He also knew from His dream God was Mary's husband...adultery carried a sense of defilement...if a woman had known contact with another man she was no longer fit to be visited by her husband...In Jeremiah 3
1 God says, "(1) If a husband divorces his wife
And she goes from him
And belongs to another man,
Will he still return to her?
Will not that land be completely polluted?
But you (2) are a harlot with many lovers;"

Joseph was forbiden all time...






216 posted on 11/01/2002 2:29:07 PM PST by Irisshlass
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To: aruanan
As far as the perpetual virginity of Mary goes (which is why most people insist that the "brothers and sisters of Jesus" were children of Joseph from a previous marriage), this would have required that she never have sex with Joseph. But it's clear from Matthew that Joseph did, indeed, have sex with Mary. He just waited until after Jesus was born...

But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

That's almost funny. From reading your posts, I thought you knew the Bible better than that.

Do a search in the Old Testament, and see how the word "until" is used. It did not imply that the action ever occurred; only that it did not occur before the specified time.

By contrast, in contemporary English, "not until" implies that the action did occur after the specified time. The meanings are totally different.

OT example: "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool." Was he evicted once his enemies were subdued?

340 posted on 11/01/2002 9:18:37 PM PST by Steve0113
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