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Boy Scouts to Atheist: Accept A God or Get Out
CNSNEWS.com ^ | 10/30/02 | Michael L. Betsch

Posted on 10/30/2002 3:39:31 AM PST by kattracks

(CNSNews.com) - The assistant Scoutmaster of a Pacific Northwest Boy Scout troop is currently faced with the decision of professing his belief in a "supreme being" or facing banishment from the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). However, 19-year-old Darrel Lambert said he's been an atheist since the ninth grade and he's sticking to his convictions.

Lambert's track record with the Seattle-based Troop 1531 is impressive. Throughout his 10-year scouting career he earned 37 merit badges to achieve the rank of Eagle Scout; served as a quartermaster and three-time senior patrol leader; and has dedicated himself to more than 1,000 hours of community service.

But Lambert is also passionate in his rejection of the existence of any supreme being, even though the BSA's regional Chief Seattle Council informed him that expressing a reverence for Mother Earth would be an acceptable form of worship.

Although Lambert admitted to his scout troop's review board that, for years, he had intentionally neglected to demonstrate the principles of faith and reverence to God contained within the Scout Oath and Law, he was awarded the BSA's highest honor last year - Eagle Scout. Coincidentally, his mom is the Scoutmaster of that troop.

Mark Hunter, spokesman for the BSA's regional Chief Seattle Council, said he could not comment or speculate whether Trish Lambert influenced members of the Eagle Scout review board that approved her son's Eagle Scout application, which mandates all applicants must: "Demonstrate that you live by the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life."

Ironically, Lambert addressed parents Monday night in the basement of a chapel at a retirement home, the Seattle Times reported. He urged those in attendance to look beyond the issue of his atheism and support his proven dedication to the Boy Scouts.

"I think the only power higher than myself is the power of all of us combined," Lambert said.

Additionally, Lambert said he wants to see the 92-year-old BSA repeal its national membership requirements, which includes on its application a Declaration of Religious Principle. He proposed that individual troops be given the right to devise the standards by which they extend their membership to Scouts and adult leaders.

Hunter said Lambert would be permitted to continue his leadership role and interact with members of Troop 1531 while he takes some time to "search out his feelings on this."

"If they're truly what they are," Hunter said, "his membership will be terminated."

Atheism rejected in court

A similar battle erupted in 1991 when twins, Michael and William Randall, refused to recite the Boy Scout Oath's reference to God and faced expulsion from the Orange County, Calif., Boy Scouts Council, said BSA spokesman Gregg Shields.

"At the time, they were eight-years-old ... and they said they were agnostics," Shields noted. Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines an agnostic as "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable."

The Randall twins' father, an attorney, argued a successful seven-year case in an Orange County district court only to have it overturned by the Calif. State Supreme Court in 1998.

Shields said the twins fulfilled all of the requirements to become Eagle Scouts, but since the Calif. Supreme Court ruled that the BSA could legally refuse to accept them as members, they were never awarded with the BSA's highest honor.

Teenage rebellion normal

"We recognize that in your early teenage years you go through a formative period where you question and you prod beliefs and you think about and you explore ideas," Shields said. "That's natural and to be expected."

But Shields said Lambert is now an adult who has chosen to lead a group that requires its young members and adult leaders to believe in a supreme being. He stressed that the organization places a high importance on the spiritual development of scouts to recognize a being greater than themselves.

"We expect an adult has the ability to make their own mind up about a belief," Shields said. "If one doesn't agree with the Boy Scout belief system, then perhaps boy scouting is not for that person."

E-mail a news tip to Michael L. Betsch.

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TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: athiest; bsa; bsalist; god; scouts
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To: RonF; WorkingClassFilth
What you say is true, RonF, but I agree with wcf in that every effort should be made to find and recruit male scoutmasters. Boy Scouts is one of the last places where teenage boys can be around men, can learn how to act like men, and can have solid male role models.
41 posted on 10/30/2002 1:45:41 PM PST by yendu bwam
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To: PokeyJoe
If God exists, and I state that "God exists" - then I'm on His good side.
If God exists, and I state that "God doesn't exist" - then I'm going to Hell.
If God doesn't exist, and I say "God exists" - there is nobody to get mad at me when I die.

You forgot a possibility: If God exists, but it's not the God I believe in, and I therefore state that the wrong God exists - then I'm really screwed.

It looks to me like stating that "God exists" has about a 2 in 3 chance of sending you to Hell - or worse - if He does exist.... ;)

42 posted on 10/30/2002 1:53:00 PM PST by general_re
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To: yendu bwam
I agree with wcf in that every effort should be made to find and recruit male scoutmasters.

I'm in agreement with this statement, but I don't agree that it's preferable to fold a Troop rather than continue with a female SM if you don't find a male SM.

43 posted on 10/30/2002 2:00:44 PM PST by RonF
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To: kattracks
However, 19-year-old Darrel Lambert said he's been an atheist since the ninth grade and he's sticking to his convictions.

Heh heh...only in today's society could a belief in absolutely nothing be called "sticking to his convictions." Oh well, at least he's not a pedophile. At least only he is going to hell and not making everyone else's around him a living one as well...

44 posted on 10/30/2002 2:04:26 PM PST by Future Snake Eater
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To: anniegetyourgun
Actually, a betting man would consider Pascal's Wager and bet on Christianity. But then, it's not really about odds....it's about His grace through faith that folks come to eternal life in heaven and true joy in this life.

Pascal's Wager is flawed. First it assumes there is a hell. Second, it assumes that if there is a Creator, he even cares enough to punish people who deny his existence.

45 posted on 10/30/2002 2:31:22 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: general_re
Hmmm...

But, since there can only be one God (God is that than which there can be no greater), then it matters not. God is still God, therefore this logically precludes the possibility of your postulate.

Besides, maybe God doesn't give a rip what we think, and will give us 72 virgins anyhow. =)

46 posted on 10/30/2002 3:48:31 PM PST by PokeyJoe
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To: KC Burke
Oh, I get it...he is trying to subvert it and control it to his will.

Nnnnno, I'd say he's just out to get his little narcissistic 15 minutes of fame.

47 posted on 10/30/2002 3:57:00 PM PST by iconoclast
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To: stuartcr
Why do you believe that eternity depends on something you believe, which cannot be proven with human reasoning/logic, here on earth for 70 or 80 years?

Why would you have any interest in eternity?

48 posted on 10/30/2002 4:01:22 PM PST by iconoclast
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To: PokeyJoe
But, since there can only be one God (God is that than which there can be no greater), then it matters not. God is still God, therefore this logically precludes the possibility of your postulate.

Yeah, but the versions we're given to choose from contradict each other. Don't eat pork versus pork OK. Love thy neighbor versus kill the infidel. "God said 'let there be light'" "versus "the world was vomited up by a giant raven." This is one of the many problems with Pascal's Wager - there's just so many gods to choose from these days. And this isn't like buying a car - get a lemon in this deal, and you've got an eternity of hurting ahead of you ;)

Besides, maybe God doesn't give a rip what we think, and will give us 72 virgins anyhow. =)

Sold! Allahu Akhbar! ;)

49 posted on 10/30/2002 4:03:44 PM PST by general_re
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To: Zon
I don't associate much with religious following people but rather more with self-leader types

I often think it would be a positive move to require date of birth on each homepage. I'm often curious.

I, myself, an coming up on 67 and I really have no idea of what a "self-leader" would be. A hermit?

50 posted on 10/30/2002 4:17:55 PM PST by iconoclast
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To: iconoclast
Arcane comment about date of birth, but so be it. Not every person grow wiser with age. Bill Gates, Ray Kroc, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison etc. are a few examples you may have heard of before -- there's several magnitudes more little-known self-leaders. You're welcome to think of self-leaders as hermits if that's all your age allows, since apparently according to you, you're limited by your age -- as best as I can decipher.
51 posted on 10/30/2002 4:29:47 PM PST by Zon
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To: Prodigal Son
There is a hell and there is a God. Or there isn't either. That's 4 options.

BTW, He doesn't choose hell for people. They want nothing to do with God, and He grants them their hearts desire. He won't force Himself on anyone.

52 posted on 10/30/2002 5:22:09 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: reasonseeker
Except that little green men have not revealed themselves to mankind.
53 posted on 10/30/2002 5:24:00 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: stuartcr
Like I said, it's not really about logic, science, or human reason. It's about faith, which is not a leap into the darkness but a step into the light. Eternity is a given....just depends on where one spends it.
54 posted on 10/30/2002 5:27:04 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun
Stating that there is no God with such conviction would require one to be all-knowing, a God, which in turn negates the original premise.

How beautifully you have stated this. This fits in well with something I've noticed about the atheists (or anti-theists) I've seen: each one worships his Almighty Self.

55 posted on 10/30/2002 5:51:21 PM PST by Devil_Anse
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To: RonF
RonF, All of what you say is great. Well and good and so forth. None of it, however, means scat.

I'll grant you that many men don't care about much but their own pastimes but that is hardly and endorsement for twisting the logic and intent of BSA to fit the 'gender-neutral' PCism of modern, nit-wit America.

Your view is the revisionist view softened by the needs of the 'children.' As you admit, if kids wanted a scouting experience, they could have gotten it several miles away. Too bad. I had kids that travelled over five miles to get to our meetings.

The fallacy that you and others present is that 'some' experience is better than 'no' experience. Therefore, let's accomadate all who want the 'experience' by whatever means are expedient.

You, and those like you, have little regard for the intent, tradition, meaning, ideology and purposes of Scouting. By ignoring the fixed and inseparable gulf of sexual identity from the role of Scoutmaster, you contribute to the direct dilution and perversion of the meaning of 'Boy Scouts.'

Since Baden Powell is not here to illuminate the errors of your ill-conceived thought, I'll direct you to the body of traditional scouting literature. Please refrain from your personal conjecture in responding.
56 posted on 10/30/2002 11:12:26 PM PST by WorkingClassFilth
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To: iconoclast
Mainly because it lasts forever, and I believe in something after death, just not eternal punishment.
57 posted on 10/31/2002 4:37:38 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: Devil_Anse
Bingo....and their god is too small.
58 posted on 10/31/2002 4:37:57 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun
Agreed that eternity is a given, and we both seem to agree on an afterlife. I just don't agree with you on the eternal punishment/reward idea. Our faiths are illogically, unreasonably, and unscientifically different. Who is to say which is correct, if either.
59 posted on 10/31/2002 4:41:14 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: stuartcr
None of us can say....we can only go by what God has said. The first lie from Satan, of course, was, "Hast God said?" The truth is, He has. "These things are written that you may KNOW that you have eternal life." I John 5
60 posted on 10/31/2002 4:44:18 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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