PILOTS' FINAL AGONY (Flight 587)

New York Post ^ | 10/30/02 | ADAM MILLER

[kattracks]

The pilots of doomed Flight 587 were unaware the tail had snapped off as they desperately battled to control the plane before it made its death dive in Queens, chilling cockpit voice recordings released yesterday show.

The recordings, released by the National Transportation Safety Board at the start of four days of public hearings in Washington, D.C. - which are being attended by scores of victims' families - shed little light on the tragedy.

[VOA]

PILOTS' FINAL AGONY (Flight 587)

Chilling stuff.
And one of the sad stories from that flight was the loss of an American sailor who'd
just returned from his tour with Enduring Freedom.
IIRC, his sister (or sister-in-law) had booked him on this flight...the poor lady was a
wreck with emotion over having made the fateful reservation.

[BradyLS]

Yeah, but, from FIVE MILES away???

[wastoute]

Question: How many mechanics that have access to our fleet of civilian air carriers are muslim?

[DWSUWF]

"...Question: How many mechanics that have access to our fleet of civilian air carriers are muslim?..."

Good question.

One would be too many.

[Red Jones]

this article is good for a laugh. the eye-witnesses, the eye witnesses, the eye witnesses said that the plane blew up in mid-air. They saw the plane break up in mid-air also. It didn't all fall into one spot, part of it (an engine) fell some distance away. They don't manufacture big passenger jets that fall apart due to 'air turbelence' in mid-air.

It was muslim terrorists who took this plane down. The question is 'why would the government lie about it?'. It could be to deny the terrorists of a victory. If people don't know the terrorists did this, then the terrorists gain nothing. Or, it could be to confuse potential opponents, those like alex jones who believe the government orchestrated 911.

[copycat]

Jet "exploded into pieces"
Feds Downplay Flt. 587 Explosion Reports

Breakup of Airliner is captured on security film.
Flight 587 Video Shows "Puff of Smoke" in Sky
FBI Sitting on Flt. 587 Videotape

Accident Theories Falling Like Dominoes (a collection of trial balloons)
Air Turbulence May Be Factor in Jetline Crash, Officials Say
Sabotage Explains Fight 587 Crash, Expert Says

JetBlue Pilot Saw American Airlines Crash
Flt. 587 Eyewitnesses insist Expolsion Came Before Tail Broke Off
Flight 587 probe focusing on what made tail fall off

Flight 587 Witnesses Blast Feds
Flight 587:Video May Hold the Key

[copycat]

Monday Dec. 3, 2001; 11:07 a.m. EST

Flt. 587 Eyewitnesses Insist Explosion Came Before Tail Broke Off

Two eyewitness to the Nov. 12 crash of American Airlines Flight 587 said over the weekend that investigators for the National Transportation Safety Board are wrong to focus on potential structural defects as the cause of the disaster - insisting instead that the plane's tail came off over New York's Jamaica Bay only after it exploded in a fireball.

"It was after the explosion," eyewitness Tom Lynch, a retired firefighter, told the New York Post. "I'm telling you, the tail was there until the second explosion."

"No tail fell off, not before the explosion. I swear to that," Lynch told the paper's Steve Dunleavy.

The eyewitness said there was absolutely no doubt about what he saw.

"I had my head up taking in that beautiful, clear day and was staring straight at the plane. It made a bank turn and suddenly there was an explosion, orange and black, on the right-hand side of the fuselage. It was a small explosion, about half the size of a car."

He continued:

"The plane kept on going straight for about two or three seconds as if nothing had happened, then ‘vwoof' - the second, big explosion on the right wing, orange and black. It was only then that the plane fell apart. It was after the explosion and I'm telling you, the tail was there until the second explosion."

Lynch, who lives near the Belle Harbor, N.Y. crash site, said he knew thirteen others who also saw the explosion and/or fire.

[copycat]

One, retired police lieutenant Jim Conrad, told Dunleavy:

"I saw exactly what Tom saw. I was near a stop light at the Marine Parkway Bridge. First, the small explosion. The plane kept on going, tail intact, then the big explosion and the plane nose-dived. The first thing I said was: ‘The bastards did it again.'"

Lynch said he's tried to contact the FBI and the NTSB but they weren't interested in his story. Ditto Sens. Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton, and his congressional representative Anthony Weiner, who also gave him the brush off.

"I got no response from anyone," he said.

[copycat]

Last week NewsMax.com asked New York State's newly appointed public security czar James Kallstrom why a traffic surveillance video that reportedly captured Flt. 587's mid-air break up has not been publicly released.

"I have not seen the tape. I heard some mention of it. But I've not seen the tape and I really have no knowledge of it," Kallstrom said.

"Why it hasn't been released, I suspect, is because the investigation is ongoing. But I don't know the answer to that."

[copycat]

Ethan Moses said he had seen the plane climbing in the sky after take-off.

It was travelling to the left slightly and then it just nose dived straight down

Ethan Moses , "It was in a climbing position and when I looked up I saw fire on the left side of the engine," he told CNN.

The wing appeared to separate from the rest of the plane, which veered to the left and then plunged into a nose dive, he said.

[Red Jones]

it wasn't a muslim mechanic, it was a muslim shoe-bomber. Debka at least said it was so. Eye-witnesses saw the explosion in fuselage just behind wings.

[Common Tator]

the eye-witnesses, the eye witnesses, the eye witnesses said that the plane blew up in mid-air

I'll bet they are at least as reliable as the Eye Witneses that said white truck and a white van with ladders was what the Hispanic killers in the WHITE van were driving. Those HISPANIC KILLERS even GLARED at a WITNESS as he backed out of the parking LOT.

Muhammad and Malwo could not have done it.. One eyewitness said a Burgandy Chevie Caprice and Burgandy ain't blue and the rest said white van. And we know that EyeWitness after EyeWitness, after EyeWitness are never wrong.

Eyewitneses in plane crashes and shootings are not worth a warm pitcher of spit. You and Moose have a lot in common you both believe eye witnesses.

Ten times they had Muhammad and Malvo stopped in the line of traffic leaving the scene. Ten times they checked the drivers license and car license and let them go with out a search... The Eye witnesses said it was a WHITE VAN with a Ladder on top.

Eyewitnees said a plane blew up.... Uh HUH!... The plane probably fell on Muhammads white van... That is why he had to buy a BLUE Chevie CAPRICE to replace it.

[copycat]

bttt

[Red Jones]

that's pretty funny; but when people investigate an accident they ask the eye witnesses what happened. When people investigate a crime they ask the eye witnesses. When a bunch of eye witnesses agree on what happened and are also adamant about what they saw, then a reasonable person will believe them. If turbulence really causes these planes to break apart in mid-air, then the planes should all be grounded, shouldn't they?

[copycat]

So perhaps the dozens of witnesses who saw FIRE or EXPLOSIONS just imagined it.

It's one thing for an eyewitness to try and describe the color of a car or someone's skin at night in dim lighting.

It's quite another for dozens of eyewitnesses to IMAGINE they saw fire or ewxplosions in broad daylight.

[rmvh]

Re your #6....They don't manufacture big passenger jets that fall apart due to 'air turbelence' in mid-air.

That is simply an incorrect statement.

Although Boeing has never lost a commercial jet because of rudder action, Airbus was well aware that high stress reaction to the rudder might well cause catastrophic failure of the vertical stabalizer (read a major part of the airframe.

Airbus had alerted American Airlines of this fact in writing as American pilots were being trained to counter high wind shear and severe air turbulence (such as the spiraling wake from a preceeding aircraft) with high stress rudder action.

[Alberta's Child]

Airbus had alerted American Airlines of this fact in writing as American pilots were being trained to counter high wind shear and severe air turbulence (such as the spiraling wake from a preceeding aircraft) with high stress rudder action.

That's a very interesting point that you've raised. This has been mentioned in the aftermath of the Flight 587 crash, but I don't know the actual source of the information.

I am certain, however, that this "story" will change once Airbus (for manufacturing a defective product) and American Airlines (for using this product to transport passengers even after they had been warned that it was defective) are in civil court facing billions of dollars in lawsuits from the families of victims.

[MoodyBlu]

Tator,

I am not surprised anymore at the idiocy of posters when it comes to airplane "ACCIDENTS". Why is it so difficult to believe that things break, humans make errors, sh!t happens?

I know from flying small, single engine aircraft that strong rudder input, left or right, puts a great deal of stress on the airframe. Consider that there may have been a flaw at the point the tail attached to the fusalage and the strong right/left input by the pilot to counter the turbulence they enountered was sufficient to snap the tail.

Trains run off of tracks, bridges collapse with cars going across them, walkways with hundreds of people on them collapse in hotels because things happen. For all you people who see coverup/conspiracy in everything that happens, get real.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Eyewitnees said a plane blew up.... Uh HUH!...

Put on your asbestos union suit. One cannot swim against the tide and defy the conventional hysteria wisdom and go unscathed.