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Moscow Pressed To Reveal Siege Gas
BBC ^ | 10-27-2002

Posted on 10/27/2002 5:20:23 AM PST by blam

Sunday, 27 October, 2002, 11:56 GMT

Moscow pressed to identify siege gas

Hostages are not being allowed out of hospital

The authorities in Russia are coming under increasing pressure to reveal details about the type of gas used by special forces in a raid which ended a three-day siege at a Moscow theatre. The latest health ministry statement says that 118 hostages - 28 more than previously reported - and up to 50 Chechen rebels died after troops stormed the theatre on Saturday.

Many hostages are in a serious condition

As the death toll rose, two foreign nationals were reported to have died from gas poisoning. Russia has maintained that none of the deaths were caused by gas.

At least 390 freed hostages remained in hospital on Sunday, many in a serious condition after being overcome by the mystery substance.

According to reports, Russian officials have instructed doctors not to let survivors out of hospital in case there are some hostage-takers hiding among the victims.

Russian President Vladimir Putin made an emotional television address hours after the raid, in which more than 700 Russian and foreign hostages were freed.

The president appealed for forgiveness for not having saved all the captives, but said the Russian forces had "achieved the near impossible, saving hundreds, hundreds of people".

Mr Putin declared a day of national mourning on Monday for those who died in the siege.

Mystery gas

The special forces stormed the complex after pumping in the unidentified potent gas to disable the Chechen rebels.

The gas also incapacitated many of their hostages, leaving some unconscious, with breathing problems and memory loss.

A BBC correspondent in Moscow, Jonathan Charles, says the Russian authorities are maintaining an air of mystery, describing the gas used only as a "special substance".

Military experts believe it could have been based on an hallucinogenic drug - one never deployed before in such circumstances.

Russia's NTV television quoted Dutch and Kazakh officials as saying two of their nationals died from the effects of the gas.

The Dutch Foreign Ministry named the victim as 38-year-old Natalja Zjirova, Russian news agency Interfax reported.

Earlier, Russian Deputy Interior Minister Vladimir Vasilyev said the gas had not caused any deaths.

His statement conflicted with a report on Moscow Radio which quoted doctors as saying some captives might have choked on their own vomit after breathing in fumes.

Hospital clamp-down

Distraught families have been clamouring for information about relatives who are being held at medical facilities across Moscow, but so far they are not being allowed inside.

Police are not letting relatives into hospitals

Officially, there are 40 patients who are still unconscious, but even those who have fully recovered are not being allowed out.

Police believe some of the Chechen rebels might be posing as civilian victims and they want to screen all the patients.

Interior Minister Boris Gryzlov has launched a Moscow-wide operation to catch anyone who might have helped the rebels and 30 people have been arrested.

The deputy Interior Minister also urged the public to report anyone acting suspiciously to police, while patrols are on the streets of Moscow carrying out on-the-spot identity checks.

However, Mr Gryzlov has also ordered measures to prevent outbursts of anti-Chechen feeling in Russia, echoing a call for people not to seek revenge by President Putin on Friday.

Chechnya's elected president, Aslan Maskhadov, said he felt responsible for those "who resorted to self-sacrifice in despair" though the rebels, he said, had nothing to do with official policy.

In a statement published on a Chechen website, President Maskhadov said the "barbaric and inhumane policies" of the Russian leadership were ultimately to blame and criticised the storming of the theatre.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gas; identify; moscow; pressed; siege; to
I read that three terrorists have already been found amoung the hostage survivors.
1 posted on 10/27/2002 5:20:23 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
...describing the gas used only as a "special substance".

Could it have been exhaust fumes from any passing Russian automobile?

2 posted on 10/27/2002 5:31:07 AM PST by Libloather
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To: blam
Given the scope of the attack by the terrorists and that all hostages could have been killed, I believe the Russian use of gas was both clever and saved many lives. They also should take time to search through survivors for hidden terrorists. None should escape a swift, public execution.
3 posted on 10/27/2002 5:32:43 AM PST by toddst
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To: blam
This was no "siege" at all. The "armed vermine"(c)putin were finished in less than 15 minutes and faught about as hard as a girls high school chess team. The more acurate terms would be Decimation, Liquidation, Laughable Defeat, Hilarious loss.

Nothing I saw in moscow lives up to the following definition:

siege Pronunciation Key (sj) n.

1) The surrounding and blockading of a city, town, or fortress by an army attempting to capture it.
2) A prolonged period, as of illness: a siege of asthma.
3) Obsolete. A seat, especially a throne.

4 posted on 10/27/2002 5:38:54 AM PST by ChadGore
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To: toddst
The gas may have killed more hostages than the assault. The Drudge site has a link to an article that the gas killed by knocking out the person and then if the person vomited due to nausea from the gas, they chocked to death.

An outright assault may have been the way to go or next time, choose a gas that has less nausea side affects.
5 posted on 10/27/2002 5:46:32 AM PST by RicocheT
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To: blam
Maybe something as simple as carbon monoxide? Odorless, colorless, unconsciousness before death, loss of judgement well before that. Critical cases treatable with hyperbaric chambers which they had plenty of time to bring in in quantity.
6 posted on 10/27/2002 5:46:44 AM PST by R W Reactionairy
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To: R W Reactionairy
Not likely, imho. Something much stronger/faster. People near the introduction point probably got a fatal dose
7 posted on 10/27/2002 6:33:59 AM PST by steve50
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To: steve50
I heard they borrowed Hillary's pantsuit and stuffed it in a ventilation shaft.
8 posted on 10/27/2002 6:42:24 AM PST by Solamente
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To: ChadGore
One of the alternate definitions of "decimate" is "to reduce by 1 out of each 10." I would not place it on the "more accurate" side of the ledger. No offense intended.

The Language Police

9 posted on 10/27/2002 6:50:36 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: RicocheT
An outright assault may have been the way to go or next time, choose a gas that has less nausea side affects.

Tell me, if they go with outright assault next time, how are they to prevent the terrorists from blowing up the packs of plastique strapped around their waists as the soldiers come in?

And how are they to prevent the terrorists from blowing up the building and killing terrorists, hostages, rescuers, and bystanders?

The gas obviously wasn't a perfect solution, but I'm not sure they had much choice.

10 posted on 10/27/2002 6:58:13 AM PST by Amelia
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To: blam
At least 390 freed hostages remained in hospital on Sunday, many in a serious condition after being overcome by the mystery substance.

Reality check...
The same intellectually-challenged who maintain that we can "negotiate" ourselves out of the current epidemic of Muslim Mass Murder are predictably hand-wringing and wailing that all the hostages were not safely extracted.

Reality check:
The muslim roaches had wired the entired theater with explosives.
Many of the rats were wired with body explosives.
Had they been "palestinians" the mayhem and destruction wuld have been immediate and total.

That over 700 were saved should be cause for rejoicing.
The alternative was real.

Does it matter what gas was used to effect the rescue?
Do we revisit "safer bullets" here?

Has the world IQ plummeted while I wasn't looking?

11 posted on 10/27/2002 7:10:51 AM PST by Publius6961
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To: R W Reactionairy
The interesting information concerning gas

There are no non-fatal stun-gases (V-gases). V-gases can not be a cause a paralysis of respiratory ways, they cause a paralysis smooth, including respiratory muscularity and guaranteed death without dependence from dosage and concentration. Dream or other effects they do not cause.
One doctor of SkIifosofsky institute has told, that nobody was informed about concrete structure of gas, but all doctors were ordered to give injured 'nalockson' or 'nalorphin', which are applied in case of overdosage of heroin (mentioned medicines are antagonist of opioid receptors). Hence, gas was like opiate - such as heroin, only in the aerosol form. All injured persons had symptoms of opiate intoxication.
12 posted on 10/27/2002 7:16:53 AM PST by Ivan Ivanov
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To: Publius6961
"Has the world IQ plummeted while I wasn't looking?"

The low IQ people are getting more face time these days.

13 posted on 10/27/2002 7:18:44 AM PST by blam
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To: Ivan Ivanov
Thank you for that explanation.
For most of us this is an exotic subject.

I hope to learn a lot in the next few days.

14 posted on 10/27/2002 7:39:43 AM PST by Publius6961
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To: Ivan Ivanov
I have had several operations, and before administering the general anesthetic, they injected something called Versed(sp?), which sends you from total awareness to la la land so quickly it's scary. Makes one understand why heavy dopers do what they do. If you did not know it was coming, you would have no chance to do anything like set off a bomb, etc.

Can this stuff be administered in other forms bedside IV?
15 posted on 10/27/2002 7:46:16 AM PST by VMI70
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To: Publius6961
Re your # 11

Good Post....Says it all and very well.

16 posted on 10/27/2002 7:57:08 AM PST by rmvh
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To: VMI70
I cannot discuss such secret. I write from Russia...
17 posted on 10/27/2002 8:05:17 AM PST by Ivan Ivanov
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To: VMI70
I have had several operations, and before administering the general anesthetic, they injected something called Versed(sp?), which sends you from total awareness to la la land so quickly it's scary.

Same experience here, LOL.
Except I didn't know what it was.

I remember being wheeled into the OR, then... nothing

18 posted on 10/27/2002 8:10:51 AM PST by Publius6961
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To: rmvh
Thank you.
I can only add explicitly that negotiating with the terrorists is never an option.

Not for any sane adult that is capable of rational thought.

19 posted on 10/27/2002 8:14:31 AM PST by Publius6961
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To: Publius6961
Amazing stuff, isn't it. Now I look forward to having surgery.
20 posted on 10/27/2002 9:19:16 AM PST by VMI70
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