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To: Desdemona; ksen; Thinkin' Gal; Tao Yin
In my translation, Matthew says lived together, not came together. Luke is a better source for Mary anyway. And before you tell me, yes, I know, Luke says first-born son. But, James was not a full brother to Jesus.

Until we're all using the same translations, this is all useless.


Until further notice I will assume you are using the NAB for your version of Matthew 1:18. I have taken the liberty of posting several versions, all of which include Matthew 1:25, which completes the Chapter.

Matthew 1:

RSV
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit;
25 but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus.

Douay-Rheims
18 Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost.
25 And he knew her not till she brought forth her first born son: and he called his name Jesus.

NAB
18 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, 7 but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit.
25 He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus.

NIV
18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.
25 But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

How do you explain Matthew 1:25 from any version?

86 posted on 10/21/2002 11:14:07 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE
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To: OLD REGGIE
Thanks Reg. You are the master of coming up with and comparing the different translations. ;^)
89 posted on 10/21/2002 11:19:53 AM PDT by ksen
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To: OLD REGGIE; All
But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son.

IOW, Joseph did not have sex with his wife UNTIL she bore the Messiah??

The customs of the time of Jesus were very explicit concerning burials. James would not have been called his brother had he not been his brother.

As for the concept of stepbrothers, where does it mention that Mary remarried a man who had kids ( they would have had to have been the other guys kids if she was a perpetual virgin ).

Just curious.

91 posted on 10/21/2002 11:24:52 AM PDT by PleaseNoMore
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To: OLD REGGIE
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/10/1021_021021_christianrelicbox.html <---Much mor einfo here from National Geographis...heres an excerpt.......

Jesus and James

Whether Jesus was the son of God is a theological problem, said Lemaire. But historians don't doubt the existence of either James or Jesus; both are mentioned frequently in early historical accounts.

Following the death of Jesus in 29 A.D., James assumed leadership of the Christian church in Jerusalem until he himself was martyred in 62 A.D. According to biblical accounts, he was one of the first apostles to see Jesus after his resurrection.

He is referred to as the brother of Jesus in both the Bible and in contemporary historical accounts. In Matthew 13:55-56, for instance, Jesus is said to have four brothers and two sisters. But the exact nature of these relationships—whether they were full siblings by blood, half siblings, or cousins—has been open to interpretation.

"If you're Catholic, you think they're cousins because the perpetual virginity of Mary is official church doctrine," said Witheringon. "But there are a lot of problems in the historical record with that."

"When James is referred to as the 'brother of our lord' in the New Testament, the word used means 'blood brother,'" he continued. "It would have to be qualified in context to mean something different."

A second interpretation is that James and the other siblings are half-brothers and -sisters, Joseph's children from a prior marriage.

"The ossuary gives us another piece of evidence outside the Bible that these are blood brothers and sisters of Jesus," said Witherington.

92 posted on 10/21/2002 11:31:24 AM PDT by Delbert
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To: OLD REGGIE
No one esle was up to the task so I had to find an explanation of Matthew 1:25 myself, so here goes...

The same must be said of the expression, "and he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son" (Matthew 1:25); the Evangelist tells us what did not happen before the birth of Jesus, without suggesting that it happened after his birth.

Very weak defense.

Case 1: The verse contains "He knew her". QED. If you want to expand, you can say it actually says "He knew her not till" which is different. And I say you can not interpret this to mean "He knew her not while". There is a different between "till" and "while".

Case 2: There is a difference between past tense and future tense. Consider the following two statements.

You can not go swimming until you wait 30 minutes after you finish eating.

He did not go swimming until he waited 30 minutes after he finished eathing.

In the future tense, the use of until does not imply an action. In the past tense, the use of until does imply that action.

136 posted on 10/21/2002 12:55:49 PM PDT by Tao Yin
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