FLIGHT 587---Shame, Shame

USRead ^ | 10/17/02 | Victor Trombettas

[copycat]

I predict that Mr. um-Jim will have to attack the credibility of the eyewitnesses.

[copycat]

Best get all my cards on the table now...

JetBlue Pilot Saw American Airlines Crash
Flt. 587 Eyewitnesses insist Expolsion Came Before Tail Broke Off

[copycat]

Two eyewitness to the Nov. 12 crash of American Airlines Flight 587 said over the weekend that investigators for the National Transportation Safety Board are wrong to focus on potential structural defects as the cause of the disaster - insisting instead that the plane's tail came off over New York's Jamaica Bay only after it exploded in a fireball.

"It was after the explosion," eyewitness Tom Lynch, a retired firefighter, told the New York Post. "I'm telling you, the tail was there until the second explosion."

"No tail fell off, not before the explosion. I swear to that," Lynch told the paper's Steve Dunleavy

[ladyinred]

I think the reason that they would cover it up, not saying they should of course, is that it would devastate the airline industry. They have suffered great losses as it is after 911, and the government already had to do a bail out. Think of the damage to the economy etc this would have caused. Who would get on a plane again if that was terrorists again so soon after Sept11th?

[Taxman]

Perhaps you are right about the reason for the cover-up.

I happen to think that the reason for the cover-up has to do with the PC crowd trying to shield the Muslim religion from any more criticisms.

They are trying, IMHO, to prevent the American people from getting really and truly p!ssed off over the Jihad that has been ordered against us.

But I don't understand that line of reasoning either.

[Taxman]

Well, I smell a rat. I do not like to be lied to, and cannot understand the necessity for the authorities to lie to the American people about these terrorist incidents.

Unless, of course, it would make someone in government "look bad." [sarcasm off]

[GregoryFul]

A terrorist's goal is to have an incident cause terror. When an incident is an accident, it doesn't cause terror, people understand it as a natural risk of life, and go on with their lives. If the investigative bodies cooperate in the terrorist's goal of causing people fear by identifying the incident as a terrorist act, they have done the people a dis-service, eh? Withholding facts may not be as nefarious as you think!

I suspect that one of the reasons for the multiple attacks on 9/11 was because of the success of our government in de-fanging the effect of many previous single incident attacks. The economic damage done by a clearly seen terrorist attack was profound. People are prone to wildly overestimate their risk of being affected by an occasional terrorist attack. Look at the behavior of people in D.C. They are afraid to go out for fear of being shot by this "terrorist" -- but yet we each generally face a far greater risk to life by driving down a highway, and most often without thinking about it.

If you were in charge, would you help the terrorist by publishing their success, or would you act to disarm and defeat the terrorist, while intefering with their intent to terrorize the people?

[ladyinred]

Maybe it is all of the above, and a few more!
Or maybe it wasn't terrorism at all, but you sure do wonder, especially with all of the witnesses. It is flight 800 like, and we all know how strange that explanation was.

[Taxman]

If I was the HMFIC, I'd do my best to publicise the fact that we are at war with people who make war on civilians, and would do my best to ensure that the American people understood exactly what we are up against, and encourage them to do their part, in whatever capacity they are comfortable with.

I would close our borders, round up and deport every freaking illegal alien in the US, and make all out war on the terrorists and those who support the terrorists, wherever they might be on this planet, using every weapon at my command.

It may be a good thing that I am not the HMFIC!

[Taxman]

It was terrorism, and so was TWA-800.

[swarthyguy]

It's too bad you're not the HMFIC.

You probably don't have any business dealings with saudi arabia either.

[Taxman]

Witholding facts is one thing. Lying is yet another.

What bugs me about all of this is that some government pogue is making decisions about "What the public can handle without panic."

Give me a break! I believe that the President and the administration should use the truth to mobilize the public to fight for FReedom, as was done in WW II (yes, I know there were a bunch of lies told during WW II also, but that is for another thread).

My gut-level instinct is that if the American people (and the rest of the world) understood what happened and were asked to support the war on terror, they would. And the US and its allies could then pursue winning the war, confident that the people would be with them.

I.e., I do not believe the American people nor our allies would panic. I think we'd hunker down and get on with business.

This is a Vietnam attitude holdover -- all the lies that the government told about Vietnam finally caught up with those who told them (LBJ, McNamara and that whole crowd), and as result, the American people and people around the world lost faith in the American government. And have not regained it, I'd wager.

And we lost an eminently winnable war!

Better to tell the truth, declare war and get on with the killing! There are more than a few folks in this world who need killing, you know.

Telling lies and "making nice" has never and will never work.

[Taxman]

I'd wager that my view is more prevalent than the opposing view -- at least on this forum, anyway.

If I were HMFIC, the last thing I'd be worried about is the next election -- somehow elections seem to paralyze politicians -- I'd be "sorting" these evil bastards out, irrespective of who they are or where they are hiding.

There would be no safe haven on this planet for any terrorist!

Nope, no business dealings with Saudi Arabia.

[swarthyguy]

Give the American people the truth and they will respond with the kind of fortitude that would inspire the world.

[Taxman]

You are precisely correct.

The American people are made of strong stuff, and when push comes to shove, we stand shoulder to shoulder and get the job done. Always have, always will.

And, we'll do it this time, despite the best efforts of the Liberal/Socialist/Marxist bastards who have been trying to rend us asunder throughout the 20 Century.

Maybe this war on terrorism will re-focus the American public on the really important components of our unique and wonderful way of life -- our "Spirit," if you will.

If I were the HMFIC, I'd sure make every effort I could to tap into that unique American Spirit.

[eno_]

Now that's what really smell about this. We got LOTS of press coverage about the tail being fished out of the bay, but I don't even recall there being a wider search for other debris. The debris from an explosion would have fallen at least thousands of feet away from the larger pieces. With eyewitnesses saying "debris fell from the plane" you would think there would, at least, be news accounts of a search. But nada!

At the very least, the wing section that was reported by meny witnesses to have come off should be in some pictures of debris. Do Google search on "587 debris." There is amazingly little in the way of pictures. Nothing!

And the media go along like sheep, even after reporting what the witnesses saw. Baa baa baa. It gives you a cold feeling.

[eno_]

If you were in charge, would you help the terrorist by publishing their success, or would you act to disarm and defeat the terrorist, while intefering with their intent to terrorize the people?

If I were in a position to know, I would make sure the truth leaked, with proof, and I would make sure to destroy the credibility of the chief liar.

And if I met Garvey or Kallstrom today, I would spit in their faces.

[Brian Allen]

Victor Trombettas is hysterical and should ease off on the meds for a bit. This infantile diatribe is a shameful Terry Hong-like insult to the room-temperature-IQd* and offers and reiterates a hundred insults to First Officer Sten Molin's memory.

Why, I wonder, can't Trombettas and the other IQ-challenged egomaniacal of the carny-barker-brained community sit down, shut up -- and let the investigation proceed professionally without the usual descent into a look-at-me, look-at-me, conspiracy-moronic rave-in?

*SEE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/772365/posts

[eno_]

Why, I wonder, can't Trombettas and the other IQ-challenged egomaniacal of the carny-barker-brained community sit down, shut up -- and let the investigation proceed professionally without the usual descent into a look-at-me, look-at-me, conspiracy-moronic rave-in? First, look in the mirror as see who is actually raving. Second, the reason Trombettas is doing this is that the "investigation" is NOT proceeding professionally. So far, there were leaks that it was thrust reversers, bird strike, wake turbulence, cheap French plastic tails, etc. THAT's NOT professional. And pilot error as a leak is lower than low. If I was Molin's family, I'd track down the source of the leak and hire a nice Russian fellow from Brighton Beach to provide them with counseling on why one should not dishonor the dead.

As for why the public should know the truth? It's costing us a frickin arm and a leg to bail out airlines that FAILED miserably to follow their own security procedures before 9/11 and have done the most SHAMEFUL job possible of shirking cost and liability and piling even more abuse (which I did not think was possible) on their already rebellious customers since then. LET UAL and AMR die. They are part of the problem.

[Brian Allen]

<< It's costing us a frickin arm and a leg to bail out airlines that FAILED miserably to follow their own security procedures before 9/11 and have done the most SHAMEFUL job possible of shirking cost and liability and piling even more abuse (which I did not think was possible) on their already rebellious customers since then. LET UAL and AMR die. >>

The first part of your rant makes as little sense as did the original diatribe on this thread, about which I have said all that needs to be said.

But insofar as the remarks I have quoted here are concerned you and I, as a browse through my posts on the subject during the past several years would quickly demonstrate, are in absolute agreement.

I have long advocated that UAL, AMR, TWA, USAir and others among the lizard-brained, [Union] mobbed-up air transportation dinosaurs ARE the problem and must be afforded the dignity of the consequences of their appalling cynical and often criminal behavior of [Particularly] the past ten years! [While Al "Gangster" Goreleone was running RICO-racketeering protection for them]