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Give It to Them Straight by John Ross Author of Unintended Consequences
John Ross

Posted on 10/17/2002 4:56:03 AM PDT by ezo4

Give It to Them Straight
by John Ross
Author of Unintended Consequences

Source

The biggest mistake we make is failing to take the moral high ground on our issue, and letting our
enemies define the terms.

THEY SAY: "We'd be better off if no one had guns."

WE SAY: "You can never succeed at that, criminals will always get guns." (FLAW: The implication here is that if you
COULD succeed, it would be a reasonable plan.)

WE SHOULD SAY: "So, you want to institute a system where the weak and elderly are at the mercy of the strong, the
lone are at the mercy of the gang. You want to give violent criminals a government guarantee that citizens are disarmed.
Sorry, that's unacceptable. Better that we should require every citizen to carry a gun."

***

THEY SAY: "Those assault rifles have no sporting purpose. You don't need a 30-round magazine for hunting deer --
they're only for killing people."

WE SAY: "I compete in DCM High Power with my AR-15. You need a large-capacity magazine for their course of fire.
My SKS is a fine deer rifle, and I've never done anything to give my government reason not to trust me, blah, blah, blah."
(FLAW: You have implicitly conceded that it is OK to ban any gun with no sporting use. And eventually they can replace
your sporting arms with arcade-game substitutes.)

WE SHOULD SAY: "Your claim that 'they're only for killing people' is imprecise. A gas chamber or electric chair is
designed for killing people, and these devices obviously serve different functions than guns. To be precise, a high capacity
military-type rifle or handgun is designed for CONFLICT. When I need to protect myself and my freedom, I want the most
reliable, most durable, highest capacity weapon possible. The only thing hunting and target shooting have to do with
freedom is that they're good practice."

***

THEY SAY: "If we pass this CCW law, it will be like the Wild West, with shoot-outs all the time for fender-benders, in
bars, etc. We need to keep guns off the streets. If doing so saves just one life, it will be worth it."

WE SAY: "Studies have shown blah blah blah." (flaw: You have implied that if studies showed CCW laws equaled more
heat-of-passion shooting, CCW should be illegal.

WE SHOULD SAY: "Although no state has experienced what you are describing, that's not important. What is important
is our freedom. If saving lives is more important that anything else, why don't we throw out the Fifth amendment? We have
the technology to administer an annual truth serum session to the entire population. We'd catch the criminals and mistaken
arrest would be a thing of the past. How does that sound?"

***

THEY SAY: "I don't see what the big deal is about a five day waiting period."

WE SAY: "It doesn't do any good, criminals don't wait five days, it's a waste of resources blah blah blah." (FLAW: You
have implied that if waiting periods DID reduce crime, they would be a good idea.)

WHAT WE SHOULD SAY: "How about a 24-hour cooling-off period with a government review board before the news is
reported? Wouldn't that prevent lives from being ruined, e.g. Richard Jewell? And the fact that this law applies to people
who ALREADY own a handgun tells me that it's not about crime prevention, it's about harassment. Personally, I want to
live in a free society, not a 'safe' one with the government as chief nanny."

***

THEY SAY: "In 1776, citizens had muskets. No one ever envisioned these deadly AK-47s. I suppose you think we should
all have atomic bombs."

WE SAY: "Uh, well, uh . . ."

WE SHOULD SAY: "Actually, the Founders discussed this very issue - it's in the Federalist Papers. They wanted the
citizens to have the same guns as were the issue weapons of soldiers in a modern infantry. Soldiers in 1776 were each
issued muskets, but not the large field pieces with exploding shells. In 1996, soldiers are issued M16s, M249s, etc. but not
howitzers and atomic bombs. Furthermore, according to your logic, the laws governing freedom of the press are only valid
for newspapers whose presses are hand-operated and use fixed type. After all, no one in 1776 foresaw offset printing or
electricity, let alone TV and satellite transmission."

***

THEY SAY: "We require licenses on cars, but the powerful NRA screams bloody murder if anyone ever suggests licensing
these weapons of mass destruction."

WE SAY: Nothing, usually, and just sit there looking dumb.

WE SHOULD SAY:"You know, driving is a luxury, where firearms ownership is a right secured by the Constitution. But
let's put that aside for a moment. It's interesting you compared guns and vehicles. Here in the U.S. you can AT ANY AGE
go into any state and buy as many motorcycles, cars, or trucks of any size as you want, and you don't need to do anything if
you don't use them on public property. If you DO want to use them on public property, you can get a license at age 16. This
license is good in all 50 states. NO waiting periods, no background checks, nothing. If we treated guns like cars, a fourteenyear-
old could go into any state and legally buy handguns, machine guns, cannons, whatever, cash and carry, and shoot
them all with complete legality on private property. And at age 16 he could get a state license good anywhere in the country
to shoot these guns on public property."

***

Final comment, useful with most all arguments:

YOU SAY: "You know, I'm amazed at how little you care about your grandchildren. I would have thought they meant
more to you than anything."

THEY SAY:"Huh?"

YOU SAY: "Well, passing this proposal won't have a big immediate effect. I mean, in the next couple of years, neither Bill
Clinton nor Newt Gingrich is going to open up internment camps like Roosevelt did fifty-odd years ago. But think of your
worst nightmare of a political leader. Isn't it POSSIBLE that a person like that MIGHT be in control here some time in the
next 30, 40, or 50 years, with 51% of the Congress and 51% of the Senate behind him? If that does happen, do you
REALLY what your grandchildren to have been stripped of their final guarantee of freedom? And do you really want them
to have been stripped of it BY YOU?"



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Washington; US: Wisconsin; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: banglist; gunrights; secondamendment
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I havent seen this posted yet so here it is. If it has been its worth reading again.
1 posted on 10/17/2002 4:56:03 AM PDT by ezo4
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To: ezoeni
Good post!
2 posted on 10/17/2002 5:21:10 AM PDT by LouD
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To: ezoeni
Actually, this still needs a little work.

In any public conflictual issue, about 40% are on one side, 40% on the other, and the decision will be made by the remaining 20% of the swing/undecided voters.

A classic example of forgetting this was when Elian's relatives in Miami had the support of 99% of the Cubans in Miami, but directed their efforts at getting the remaining 1%. In doing that, they forgot that public pressure would come not just from South Florida, but from the entire 50 states. For example, they kept calling Elian "this Cuban boy."

If you live in Peoria, it's easy to send a Cuban boy back to Cuba. Had they referred to Elian as "the newest American" and had his picture taken in his new Cub Scout uniform, (along with other Americanizing activities) the rest of the country would have followed Miami's thought process.

In these answers above, we need to talk more about what is important to listeners, not just us. We need to convince them, not us.

FReepers are big on the 2d Amendment, but the public isn't. Certainly, it's a constitutional right, but so is the 5th, and most people think anyone who invokes it is a crook. People are not swayed by law quotes unless you can make them personally relevant.

Remember, concentrate on the needs, desires and feelings of the listeners! ... not your needs and feelings. Talk about criminals already having guns, and since they are already committed to a life of burglary, muggings, rape, robbery and murder, do you really think one more law is going to stop them?

Ask a typical anti-gun parent; "If you don't like guns to defend your own home, that's fine.... but imagine if you were the mother of Polly Klass or Elizabeth Smart, and some kidnapper/rapist/murderer was breaking into your home to take your daughter, and you knew I lived next door and had a gun for defense, and the police were 20 minutes away as they always are... and you called me for help, would you want me to say, "Mary, I'd love to come running over and stop this rapist from taking your daughter, but since you voted to take away my rifle, I have nothing to help you with??????"

That's life in the real world, Mary. Do either of us ever think that would happen?

No.

But could you ever forgive yourself if it did?"

Remember, we convince the otherside when me make the price of retaining their beliefs higher than the cost of accepting ours. Let that mother above continue to hate guns, as long as she will not vote to take them away, because, since your argument, she sees the danger of losing her daughter as a worse danger than having a gun in the hands of one of her neighboors.
3 posted on 10/17/2002 5:36:51 AM PDT by MindBender26
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To: MindBender26
when WE make
4 posted on 10/17/2002 5:38:35 AM PDT by MindBender26
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To: *bang_list
An oldie but goodie.


5 posted on 10/17/2002 5:40:20 AM PDT by Joe Brower
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To: Fzob
ping
6 posted on 10/17/2002 5:41:16 AM PDT by JZoback
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To: ezoeni
There is one and only one answer to all of these questions and this is how I have been answering these questions for years:

"Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Privileges, Amendment II,

"A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

What part of "people," "right of," "shall not," and "be infringed" do you not understand?"

You see folks, arms rights are not subject to political discussions of permits, types of arms, usefulness, registration, etc.

To keep and bear arms is a RIGHT. Period.

Also, it should be noted that driving your privately owned automobile, on roads that you have paid for through gasoline taxes is not a luxury. It is a right, as well.

Amendment IX:

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to DENY OR DISPARAGE others (rights) retained by the people."

Never concede that driving your automobile on publicly funded roads is a "privilege." Again, it is the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Privileges.

7 posted on 10/17/2002 5:42:32 AM PDT by tahiti
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To: ezoeni
WE SHOULD SAY: "Your claim that 'they're only for killing people' is imprecise. A gas chamber or electric chair is designed for killing people, and these devices obviously serve different functions than guns. To be precise, a high capacity military-type rifle or handgun is designed for CONFLICT. When I need to protect myself and my freedom, I want the most reliable, most durable, highest capacity weapon possible.

Even Better..."This gun is not designed for taking lives, it is designed for defending mine."

8 posted on 10/17/2002 5:45:12 AM PDT by copycat
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To: MindBender26; SLB

FIREARMS REFRESHER COURSE

a. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

b. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

c. Colt: The original point and click interface.

d. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

e. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

f. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

g. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

h. If you don't know your rights you don't have any.

i. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

j. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights reserved.

k. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

l. The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.

m. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

n. Guns only have two enemies: rust and liberals.

o. Know guns, know peace and safety. No guns, no peace nor safety.

p. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

q. 911 - government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.

r. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

s. Criminals love gun control - it makes their jobs safer.

t. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.

u. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

v. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.

w. Enforce the "gun control laws" we have, don't make more.

x. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

y. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

z. A government of the people, by the people, for the people.

9 posted on 10/17/2002 5:47:32 AM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: Vic3O3
John Ross Ping!
10 posted on 10/17/2002 6:18:28 AM PDT by dd5339
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To: ezoeni
First rule of poltical debate; Never allow the Left's claim of moral superiority go unchallenged. It seems even the best conservatives, even Limbaugh go straight to the minutae of an argument without first refuting the claims set by the Left of their occupying the moral highground.
11 posted on 10/17/2002 6:29:11 AM PDT by junta
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To: ezoeni
bump
12 posted on 10/17/2002 6:49:34 AM PDT by Mr. Thorne
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To: Fred Mertz
EXCELLENT, Fred!!!! Can I crib from you? best, bb.
13 posted on 10/17/2002 7:01:08 AM PDT by betty boop
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To: MindBender26
Remember, concentrate on the needs, desires and feelings of the listeners! ... not your needs and feelings. Talk about criminals already having guns, and since they are already committed to a life of burglary, muggings, rape, robbery and murder, do you really think one more law is going to stop them?

Know Guns, No Criminals.
No Guns, Know Criminals.

14 posted on 10/17/2002 7:14:51 AM PDT by MrConfettiMan
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To: cavtrooper21
ping!
15 posted on 10/17/2002 7:15:52 AM PDT by Vic3O3
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To: Fred Mertz
Excellent. Anytime you can use a "well-turned sound bite", WITHOUT SCARING THE LISTENER, it's great.

D,F,K,T,P,and W are best for that reason.

There is also a great visual demo. Lay a handgun on the table. Tell the listener/viewer:

"That weapon can be fired for four purposes:

1. Target Practice

2. Hunting

3. To committ a crime, to help the criminal kill or rape someone

4. To stop that criminal from killing or rapeing someone.

But that pistol won't do anything by itself. It must be fired by a person... and a person chooses why it will be fired. The pistol doesn't make that decision, the user does... and since we know that nothing, not even long stretches in prison will make the criminal not kill, rape, and use guns to do those crimes, shouldn't we at least even the odds when a hardened criminal tries to kill or rape someone in your family."

16 posted on 10/17/2002 7:24:21 AM PDT by MindBender26
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To: MrConfettiMan
Excellent!
17 posted on 10/17/2002 7:25:05 AM PDT by MindBender26
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To: *bang_list
Bang!
18 posted on 10/17/2002 7:28:00 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: ezoeni
He's got good points but I don't bother to debate with liberals anymore. They've come out of the closet on their desire to destroy the U.S. You don't treat with your enemies, you destroy them.
19 posted on 10/17/2002 7:29:16 AM PDT by Centurion2000
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To: Travis McGee; Neil E. Wright
Bump and PING...
20 posted on 10/17/2002 11:45:30 AM PDT by dcwusmc
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