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Beltway Sniper Shootings-FR Commentary-Monday, Oct. 14
Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences | October 14, 2002 | Fox News, CNN, Press Conferences

Posted on 10/14/2002 3:37:23 AM PDT by Peach

To avoid multiple vanity threads regarding any news from press confrences, let's keep a live commentary thread going again today.

Note: This is a graphics-free thread. Graphics can be found at "Beltway Sniper Shootings-Graphics Thread".

Please visit the Prayer Thread to leave a prayer for people living in the Beltway area.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: maryland; shootings; sniper; virginia; washingtondc
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To: Chemist_Geek
I think he's just a mousey white guy from 20 to 50 that you would never look at twice in Home Depot.
121 posted on 10/14/2002 9:49:13 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Catspaw
He's not in POTUS' league. I think the USSS just want to help, and test out the latest shot locating tech.
122 posted on 10/14/2002 9:50:26 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~
The Guardian Angels were playing the odds--the killer didn't hit the previous weekend and the killer didn't hit last weekend.

I'd like to see the Guardian Angels out there on a weekday.

123 posted on 10/14/2002 9:50:44 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Peach
Piece of Legal Paper Found at Last Scene Had Scribbled Driving Directions
124 posted on 10/14/2002 9:52:51 AM PDT by Asmodeus
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To: Travis McGee
He's not in POTUS' league. I think the USSS just want to help, and test out the latest shot locating tech.

Travis, although you say that with great certainty, I don't think anyone can be absolutely sure he's not going to start going after "names." If he wants to go out in a blaze of glory, an attempt to assassinate the president would not be out of the realm of possibility.

125 posted on 10/14/2002 9:53:07 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Peach
Definitely tunnel vision re white truck. They can trade it in now for another vehicle. They can paint it. Any number of options.

When I left my office for lunch, I noticed a white van passing by as I waited to get out of the driveway. Then I saw another one, different but still a white van. By the time I got to the freeway a quarter of a mile away I counted 8 white vans and 2 white box trucks.

They're everywhere. Meaning the "white truck" business may be a completely false lead.

126 posted on 10/14/2002 9:53:25 AM PDT by Kenton
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To: Travis McGee
He's going to target a name cop or reporter to demonstrate he is not only capable of shooting random passers by.

Whoa!.....Travis what leads you to believe this will happen....just asking.

127 posted on 10/14/2002 10:11:39 AM PDT by Dog
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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~
Have the NEW "GRAPHICS THREAD - LATEST TERRA MAPS - GRAPHICS - ETC...Oct 14, 2002

Let it be known...the latest SNIPING location at the EXXON...NONE of the TERRAServers will allow you to see the ariel image...Cruise on down the INTERSTATE 95 and POOF...no image for the latest murder......very interesting to those of us following the satellite images surrounding this case.

128 posted on 10/14/2002 10:16:44 AM PDT by antivenom
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To: Kenton
I agree...if I open my front door there are two white vans and one next door...they're everywhere.....but that is only one reason I discount the white box truck or van.....If this shooter is using a company truck or van I dont't think it would have taken this long for the company to put two and two together....on the other hand, if the shooter owns both vehicles, either his family,neighbors,friends or customers would have figured this out by now.
129 posted on 10/14/2002 10:19:55 AM PDT by mystery-ak
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To: Quilla
Apparently, you've done some serious detective work. I'm appalled that your tips haven't been followed up and by the lack of seriousness of the handlers of the tip line.

I imagine that the tip lines are swamped with thousands (or tens of thousands) of calls, each with a pet theory as to who this sniper must be. Just read the threads here for a tiny slice of what the tip line workers must be facing.

130 posted on 10/14/2002 10:23:16 AM PDT by Denver Ditdat
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To: Catspaw
I didn't think of that..

They were only out on the weekends eh?
131 posted on 10/14/2002 10:28:21 AM PDT by Freedom2specul8
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To: Denver Ditdat
I'm sure the tip lines are inundated with all types of calls, but to laugh at a caller who has information of possible value can only prolong the killing spree.
132 posted on 10/14/2002 10:28:44 AM PDT by Quilla
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To: antivenom
Thanks for the link! I've looked up on the terra servers about a large farm in our family, and it cuts off at a certain point too. It could be a coincidence.. I don't know.
133 posted on 10/14/2002 10:31:15 AM PDT by Freedom2specul8
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To: Denver Ditdat
"I imagine that the tip lines are swamped with thousands (or tens of thousands) of calls, each with a pet theory as to who this sniper must be. Just read the threads here for a tiny slice of what the tip line workers must be facing."

I tried calling Hampton Police. I'm sure their not too swamped that they can't see a great probability here. I mentioned names and an address. Much different than telling them to look out for a Muslim. If you read back through all that I posted ,noting I had to leave certain incriminating names (codenames) email addresses like confirmedkills@----.com and more, you will see how the person they represent as being a probable sniper fits this character as well as this same person being mentioned as part of a sniper team that leaves death tarot cards in a story two months ago. I know they're swamped but damn..

134 posted on 10/14/2002 10:33:12 AM PDT by md2576
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To: md2576
I was at first convinced that the sniper story (an incomplete version is still in the Google cache) was an unexplainable coincidence. Since then, I've learned that snipers leaving Tarot "reaper" cards is part of "sniper lore" - its a general "sniper thing" not something the Maryland sniper thought up.

So that makes the story a lot less suspicious.
135 posted on 10/14/2002 10:38:45 AM PDT by SarahW
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To: Peach; All
Yesterday I threw out the suggestion that shooting #8 (woman wounded, Fredericksburg) might yield some extra clues to the observer since it was an outlier (wounded woman released from hospital recently). So took my own advice :-) and looked at it a little more closely. BTW that required digging in the contemporary local coverage that is still online from Oct. 5. Article I was looking at last evening may have been taken offline but a similar article is here:

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2002/102002/10052002/1033864835

The wound exited under the left breast, not just a glancing wound. So it was more serious than the impression that I had originally gotten. It could have missed the heart by only a couple of inches. So it was not as different as I had originally thought. Still... the damage seems to have been less than expected from the generic bullet type at that speed. Due to a longer distance shot? I imagine there was some lung and rib damage.

The shooting diagram appears to indicate the shot was taken from about 400' (or maybe somewhat more) out. The shooting location was between two restaurants (McDonalds and Pizza Hut) at 2:30PM, where there is nothing but driveway, parking lots, and I presume grass. That seems like a relatively awkward position from which to take a shot and get away cleanly. The shooter seems to have been focused on the Michael's parking lot to an unusually high degree.

The victim was located in between the shooter's position and the nearest freeway interchange. If the vehicle was facing away from the victim at the time, it would have to travel a somewhat circuitious path to get to the freeway.

Reports say a white vehicle was seen speeding away (no direction or further details reported to my knowledge).

So looking at this particular incident, I came away with some impressions...

At least two people are involved. One driver needed to get away from this one. Probably small vehicle involved.

Shooters are very brazen and have a fixation for specific types of targets in contrast to completely random (Michael's customers being one target).

Shooters do not seem disciplined in the formal military sense. This particular hit does not seem planned with a good escape route and not planned with a particularly good level of certainty that one would not be spotted due to proximity to restaurants (workers, customers, delivery people could have spotted).

Also, the shooters are going for torso mainly. I would expect a former military trained person would go for head shots only... just because they can, under the circumstances, and because they are "God". There is discipline involved (times of week, success of getaways, kill ratio, etc.), but it is a sloppy discipline. Therefore I would not expect much to come from looking into US military sniper records if the authorities are actually doing that with the notion it is likely to turn up something (note-- it could be a diversion by the authorities while they close in on some non-military crazy or terrorist ring).

Piggybacking, md2576's idea that a vehicle such as a jeep with a dark transparent soft-top could be involved seems plausible for a hit such as this one. It is a relatively common vehicle to be nondescript, can manuever in suburb and urban areas well (agility and speed, at least relative to a delivery van). It also has the convenient full rear field of fire capability.

136 posted on 10/14/2002 10:39:16 AM PDT by SteveH
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To: Quilla
FWIW, police are pretty serious about staking out the sniper.

A thread on a specific example of this just got pulled.
WIthout going into details that might result in THIS thread being pulled, anyone who looks suspicous is fair game to be detained. You will be stopped.
137 posted on 10/14/2002 10:43:34 AM PDT by SarahW
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To: SunnyUsa
Here's a game message board that alludes to sniping, though not exclusively, and makes reference to being God --

Romance of the 3 Kingdoms: Dynasty Warriors League

138 posted on 10/14/2002 10:46:11 AM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: SarahW
This is true. Could be anyone using this scenario. I just try to look at it all together rather than each individual story. Same as some like the video game story one aspect can be placed to several scenarios. Seems the paths from Hampton to all shootings are close to Highways like 301 and 17 instead of Interstates.
139 posted on 10/14/2002 10:46:56 AM PDT by md2576
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To: SarahW
A thread on a specific example of this just got pulled.
WIthout going into details that might result in THIS thread being pulled, anyone who looks suspicous is fair game to be detained. You will be stopped.

I would hope they would look at these to further their investigation, not hamper it. Unless the media uses FR to get stories they can report, I doubt that this thread will get pulled with people giving their personal theory of what happened. If anything, listening to thousands of different stories will ultimately be the only way to keep an open mind into the investigation. If they choose to delete and not delete theories that could or could not have merit than we know they are only looking down certain streets. If the thread contained certain personal attacks against a group or religion then that might explain the reason for deleting. Political Correctness.

140 posted on 10/14/2002 10:53:29 AM PDT by md2576
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