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To: JimThayner
I agree that the name-calling and venom is counterproductive. This is why I despise Ann Coulter and her ilk. They have vulgarized political discourse and turned politics into a bloodsport. They divide Americans, and declare people of different political beliefs to be practically mortal enemies, and not citizens of the same country who are, by and large, working towards the same goals, but with different means.

To wit: Both conservatives and liberals want to end crime and poverty. These are common goals, and noble ones. However, conservatives and liberals differ in what they think will achieve those goals. If they converse and argue intelligently, they will see the merits and drawbacks of each side, and hopefully reach a sound compromise that incorporates the best of both approaches. However, if they scream at each other, nothing will get done.

There are too many screamers out there, and in here.
5 posted on 10/10/2002 12:46:38 PM PDT by mg39
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To: mg39
The namecalling may not be productive - but I'll tell you what else isn't productive. The courtesy, civility and deference you advocate would be nice, if we were talking about an honest disagreement.

The problem is that the Left in this country lost the last of its ethical scruples during the Clinton administration.

Nothing a leftist says can be trusted, and no promise they make can be taken for granted.

Leftists have abandoned all decency - to wit, the "election" of Jean Carnahan. The Republican, John Ashcroft, declined to contest her election despite the grave irregularities in voting. He deferred his rights in a gentlemanly fashion and walked away. When he came up for nomination as AG, Carnahan voted against his confirmation out of pure spite. That's how leftists, even if they're grieving widows who should be above such pettiness, repay kindness and courtesy.

They took the gloves off a long time ago. The left in this country hates America, hates Western civilization, hates free enterprise, hates freedom and hates the Constitution. They have declared war on everything we hold dear and stop at nothing to wage it.

There can be no civil discussion with those who want to eliminate you.

19 posted on 10/10/2002 12:54:24 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: mg39
Another newbie and a Libertarian to boot. LOL

Look, you are allowed to have your opinions ; however, you don't barge into a well established place and then complain about what it's like. As for Ann Coulter, wimpy Conservatives get walked on. It's long past time that we fight back, using the Lefties' tactics. Offense works better than a game of continual catchup / defense.

If you think that Liberals really want to " end poverty and crime "; think again. Both work well , to get them elected.

Politics has been a " bloodsport ", since before this nation was a nation. New to politics, are you ?

Don't like " screamers " ? Stay away from FR !

34 posted on 10/10/2002 12:58:43 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: mg39
Both conservatives and liberals want to end crime and poverty

Correction: conservative and naive liberals want to end crime and poverty. The cynical among Democrats see a class of continually aggrieved as a perpetual constituency from which to draw votes.

Regards, Ivan

41 posted on 10/10/2002 12:59:53 PM PDT by MadIvan
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To: mg39
"To wit: Both conservatives and liberals want to end crime and poverty."

To this I must disagree. Liberals like Teddy Kennedy, Al Gore, etc. do not want an end to crime and poverty.

53 posted on 10/10/2002 1:02:58 PM PDT by Boss_Jim_Gettys
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To: mg39
Liberals don't want to end poverty. The gullible followers may, but their leaders do not. They NEED poverty and ignorance in order to have a voting base. They need people to be dependent on other people in order to survive, or at least they need people to think they cannot survive independent of government and social services.

They want people to look to government instead of being self-reliant, instead of exchanging neighborly help.

Just as lawyers want a confusing legal system from which they can profit on frivolous lawsuits, liberals want laws and rules and oppressive taxes and unprotected property rights to prevent people from gaining independence.

The LAST thing the liberal leadership wants is to end poverty.

54 posted on 10/10/2002 1:03:11 PM PDT by piasa
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To: mg39
I'm sure you're more at home with James Carvile. My own theory of why politics has degenerated into a shouting match is that the parties have positioned themselves so that each has about 49.9 percent of the vote.

It wasn't always like this. Prior to 1960, elections weren't as close. The dems owned national politics from 1932 on. Eisenhower was a fluke. Like Powell, he was a famous general who could have gone either way.

When Reagan won, the dems acted as if their birthright had been stolen. When Gingrich engineered the takeover of congress in 1994, all hell broke loose.

57 posted on 10/10/2002 1:03:37 PM PDT by js1138
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To: mg39
"liberals want to end crime"

OK, so why haven't Bill, Hillary, Teddy, Gary Condit or the Torch confessed or pleaded guilty?
72 posted on 10/10/2002 1:08:46 PM PDT by gc4nra
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To: mg39
That which is found in the middle of the road is generally referred to as "Road Kill."

I once strove to be Moderate and Independent. I thought that it proved me to be a person who looked at both sides of an issue. What it really meant was that I was too much of a wuss to take a stand and stick by it.

I know what is right. I know what is wrong.

Government is not the solution. Compromise is not the solution.

Staying in the fight, conceeding no ground, accepting incrementalism in one direction only, is the way to restore the freedom and liberty granted to us by our creator and recognized by our founding fathers.

Stay in the middle of the road, but I'll be scraping you up with a shovel...
111 posted on 10/10/2002 1:27:52 PM PDT by Crusher138
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To: mg39
"To wit: Both conservatives and liberals want to end crime and poverty."

No they don't. Rats (yes, rats) NEED crime and particularly poverty, or there is no need for rats. Rats just want the issues to use again, and again, and again, every election season. They never intend to solve the problems they whine about; they do everything they can to preserve, and even to worsen, those very same problems.

169 posted on 10/10/2002 2:04:47 PM PDT by Irene Adler
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To: mg39
They divide Americans, and declare people of different political beliefs to be practically mortal enemies, and not citizens of the same country who are, by and large, working towards the same goals, but with different means.

The Demon RATS want to enslave the people in this country by making them dependent on welfare and other social handouts.

The Republicans want to get everybody off of their lazy welfare butts and get them out working and earning an honest wage to support themselves instead of depending on Uncle Sugar and his welfare gravy train.

The Demon RATS want to have the federal gubmint involved in every aspect of your life. Remember "It Takes A Village"? The Demon RATS think if Tommy has two daddies, that's better than good. They want to indoctrinate all children at an early level.

The Republicans (at least at the grass root level) want to eliminate all of the gubmint intrusion into your life. It DOESN'T take a village to raise a child. If you want to raise a good kid, a married mother and father can and should be able to raise their own children and teach them a sense of morality, decency, and common sense.

The Demon RATS want to tax the "rich" (anyone who isn't on welfare) into a state of poverty where they are forced onto the welfare roles and become dependent on social programs.

Republicans (again, at least on the grass root level) want the gubmint out of your wallet.

The Demon RATS want to scare people into believing that if they vote anything other than Demon RAT, they will lose all of the welfare bennies they have become dependent on. After all, Demon RATS are only concerned with staying in office.

Republicans ininiated term limits and actually abide by them to prove that they aren't solely interested in maintaining a power base, but are instead more interested in making a change for the better.

Demon RATS are people who join PETA, GreenPeace, NAMBLA, Gun Control Inc., and complain that AFLAC commercials with a talking duck are degrading to ducks and damaging to their self esteem. Demon RATS think Streisand is a talented singer and actually by her albums. They think Alec Baldwin is a good actor, and think Hitlery is attractive and would make a good candidate for President of the U.S.

Republicans are people who join the NRA, the Boy Scouts of America, go to church on a regular basis, actually attend classes in college instead of spending all day everyday protesting everything under the sun. Republicans think the Aflac duck is funny, but wouldn't hesitate to shoot him down during duck season and serve him up for Sunday dinner. Republicans would rather have an angry badger in their underwear than listen to 10 seconds of that screech owl Streisand. Republicans realize that every kid in their child's 1st grade play is a much more talented actor than Alec Baldwin. Republicans acknowledge the very real probability that Hitlery is the antichrist and her looks are hideous enough to revive the old jokes about shaving the dog's butt and teaching it to walk backwards because it's so ugly. Republicans would rather be victims of spontaneous human combustion than even think about another Klinton in the white house.

Gee, I'm not sure I would agree with you. It doesn't look to me like the Demon RATS and the Republicans are "by and large, working towards the same goals..."

173 posted on 10/10/2002 2:09:03 PM PDT by JavaTheHutt
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To: mg39
Nice dream you have, but ......... And Ann Coulter is never vulgar or crude. You just don't like what she says in plain English. Doesn't fit your ideas about how things really are.
192 posted on 10/10/2002 2:37:22 PM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: mg39
Sadly the Demonrats do NOT argue civilly it is either the way they say or else the slander starts & also the real possibility of violence . My guess is that within 5 years you will have supporters of Demonrat candidates doing drive-by shootings of Republican campaign offices & if the local leftists are semi-literate even FIREBOMBINGS of Republican campaign offices in the name of "Progessive " political policies.
206 posted on 10/10/2002 2:56:16 PM PDT by Nebr FAL owner
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