The Focus is on hydrogen (BANKRUPTING THE SAUDIS ALERT)

The Daily Telegraph ^ | October 10, 2002 | Jesse Crosse

[taxed2death]

The Humvee has the GM diesel engine in it. Out of several engines to choose from...Navistar, Cummins, Gm, of course the US picked the worst of the three, the GM diesel. Only the Cummins is rated as a medium duty diesel engine, the other two are rated as light duty diesel engines. The Cummins is a $4000.00 option on Ford 550's while the cheesy navistar comes as the bottom of the barrel pick. The Cummins has 40% more main bearing surface than either the GM or the Navistar / Powerstroke. The Cummins is an inline six design, like 95% of all OTR diesel 18 wheelers. My point being, we now have the capability in the VERY near future, to run engines on 100% pure veggie oil, with minor retooling of the Cummins and minor tweaking of the fuel.


There was a test performed by a midwestern college a few years back in which they did some rather extensive long term, hi-engine life hours expirements on a Cummins 24 valve diesel engine. The test concluded that these engines could run well into their useful service range of 350,000 miles before major overhaul, on vegtable oil. Not bio diesel, but pure vegtable oil.

Talk about renewable energy! Why subsudize farmers, they could be growing our fuel right now. The only problem they havn't licked was the fact that the vegtable oil solidifies at lower temps. You want to really scew the Saudis' try this route!

There are a few cool web sites to check out
veggievan.com
turbodieselregister.com
Check out some of the links.

[dennisw]

Talk about renewable energy! Why subsudize farmers, they could be growing our fuel right now. The only problem they havn't licked was the fact that the vegtable oil solidifies at lower temps. You want to really scew the Saudis' try this route! 

Only problem are the vast petroleum inputs in modern American agriculture. Used to make the farm fertilizer and the fuel for tractors and other machinery. More efficient to take that petrol and put it directly in your tank. Cut out the middleman farmer.

It just doesn't compute to have a farmer grow crops that end up as ethanol for gas engines or vegetable oil to power diesel engines.

[Free the USA]

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list

[Minnesoootan]

I've got to get busy on my patent for the system that reproduces a good throaty header equipped V-8 sound then!
I'm gonna be rich!

[AxelPaulsenJr]

How fitting that Ford, which revolutionised cars the first time with the creation of the Model T, is planning to do so again with this. And this revolution will help us be the eventual winners in the war on terror.

You Sir, are so right on. If my wife and I make it back to London next summer I would love to get to meet you in person.

[zx2dragon]

DaimlerChrysler to Launch First U.S. Fleet of Fuel Cell Vehicles in 2003

Researchers Produce Hydrogen from Peanut Shells

Ford Focus FCEV Hybrid: Bringing Together Propulsion Systems

NAVAIR Contracts For First Fuel Cell Use in Residential Area

Direct Methanol Fuel Cell Approved for Carriage on Aeroplanes

The DoD to Install and Test Plug Power Inc. Residential Fuel Cell System

[doug from upland]

I have driven many of the fuel cell vehicles. I was pleased that the president partially responded to my question at the Town Hall Forum in Ontario, CA by mentioning fuel cells and giving support to their development. Let America benefit from being on the cutting edge of this technology and may the Arabs pound sand.

[fourdeuce82d]

The energy produced is in excess of the power required to run the alternator

perpetual motion?

bullshit.

I'm sorry, I take that back- ghuqing bullshit.

[Chemist_Geek]

Let America benefit from being on the cutting edge of this technology and may the Arabs pound sand.

Hear, hear! We're working on it. FCV won't be practical consumer vehicles for a few years, and after that then they will likely be "city cars," but they are coming. I can't wait until America's and the UK's petroleum needs can be met through domestic sources.

I work for a fuel cell company in the catalyst development department. AS you know, the fuel cell is "electrolysis in reverse," where gaseous hydrogen and oxygen are combined, and form water as well as electrical energy. The beauty is that there are no moving parts and it's a very simple powerplant - just turn on the gases and the voltage shoots up.

Ignore the naysayers who talk about "coffins" and poist pictures of the Hindenburg. They represent the buggy-whip industry at best, and are willing collaborators in our enslavement to Arab petroleum at worst.

[Nonstatist]

Ignore the naysayers who talk about "coffins" and poist pictures of the Hindenburg

How can you ? Arent we talking about 10000 psi tanks of H2 ?? Hydrogen gas has a huge explosive range. I wouldnt want to be caught in a rear end in one of those!

[stboz]

What's the latest on direct methanol cells? This would seem to be an answer to the hydrogen storage and distribution problem.

[nightdriver]

"Subjet Water engine(?)"

'Fraid not.

Hate to rain on your parade, but you're confusing some thermodynamics here. You go and build one first and then we'll talk about it.

[fourdeuce82d]

Hydrogen gas has a huge explosive range

yes, if it's confined- if the tank ruptures, and the gas escapes but is not confined, it would be displaced by the heavier atmospheric gasses, and rise, unlike gasoline, which can pool on the ground. 'course if the accident occurs in an underground parking garage, you might have a problem...

One concern might be, however, a relatively small leak that ignites, creating a jet of flame that couldn't be seen in daylight..

[Chemist_Geek]

Arent we talking about 10000 psi tanks of H2 ?? Hydrogen gas has a huge explosive range. I wouldnt want to be caught in a rear end in one of those!

No, usually a full lab/industrial cylinder of H₂ only runs about 2500 psi. Portable bottles would run much lower pressures, especially if they were well-insulated cryogenic (liquid hydrogen) storage.

The danger inherent in hydrogen is much less than that of gasoline. Hydrogen, being a gas and lighter than air, will rise away from a leak, and dissipate into the atmosphere. Gasoline, on the other hand, pools and collects and concentrates, from leaks. Hydrogen's flame has a low emissivity compared to gasoline flames, meaning that one can get much closer to a hydrogen flame and not suffer any heat injury than one could get to a gasoline fire.

Hydrogen is already in wide use, daily, around the world in industrial settings. It's a material to be respected, surely, but procedures for safe handling of hydrogen have long been established and are well-tested.

And the Hindenburg? Two-thirds of the people aboard walked away.

[Chemist_Geek]

What's the latest on direct methanol cells? This would seem to be an answer to the hydrogen storage and distribution problem.

DMFCs are not doing as well as HFCs. You lose too much, thermodynamically, in dealing with the CO - it poisons the catalyst extremely well! Work continues apace, however...

[taxcontrol]

I like to keep track of developments in the cold fusion world. Can you provide a URL to the 6/2/02 Times article confirming the original findings?

[Disgruntled_Voter]

Ok, I've read so many of these threads and the inevitable post comes down "How will you make the hydrogen in the first place?" Well I have an answer, take an initial investment in fossil fuels to make some hydrogen to power your fuel cells. Then with your fuel cells, start making more hydrogen by electrolysis. Simple, and self-perpetuating. Why hasn't anyone said this before?

A lot of the literature for fuel cells speaks to this concern of people about the supply of hydrogen, but since it's one of the most commonly occurring elements on the planet (though much is tied up in water)

[Paradox]

And the Hindenburg? Two-thirds of the people aboard walked away.

I also heard that the main fire itself was fueled by the aircraft skin, not the hydrogen.

I saw a demonstration of just how explosive and deadly GASOLINE was.. it was very scary, they compared it to dynamite.

[USMMA_83]

Ignore the naysayers who talk about "coffins" and poist pictures of the Hindenburg. They represent the buggy-whip industry at best, and are willing collaborators in our enslavement to Arab petroleum at worst.

Kinda harsh, but I agree with you 100%....

[WileyC]

You need electric power to make this hydrogen. So what are you going to burn to make it?

That's a good point and needs to be addressed:

• Using centralized sources of power generation (even using the same ol' fuels) reduces overall emissions due to efficiency and reduces transmission losses which means more efficiency.
• A hydrogen economy frees up consumers to use whatever energy technology works best. Or, to put it another way, instead of cars being tied at the hip to OPEC, oil could just be one energy source among many and replaceable as other sources come on line.
• The theoretical maximum operational efficiency for fuel cell vehicles is two to three times that of internal combustion vehicles.

So, to answer your question, we could burn oil to get the power, but we wouldn't have to. And the overall reliance on oil could be significantly less.