The Focus is on hydrogen (BANKRUPTING THE SAUDIS ALERT)

The Daily Telegraph ^ | October 10, 2002 | Jesse Crosse

[powderhorn]

My guess is when you burn coal to run hydrogen-powered autos you are utilizing 20% of the energy captured in coal.

No. You burn hydrogen to run hydrogen-powered autos. It mixes with oxygen (H20), and produces water as a byproduct.

The biggest problem won't be getting these vehicles by the Saudies, the problem will be getting these vehicles past the American oil companies. They'll block any real transition until they find a way to capture the profits from the new industry.

[RandallFlagg]

BINGO!! You nailed it!
I say we make these at home and don't tell anyone about it until at least 35% of drivers are driving them. By then it'll be too late. -I know, I'm dreaming.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

An Eddie Kasalivich BUMP

[dennisw]

And what do you burn to make the hydrogen? In the UK you would burn coal as one source.

[Caipirabob]

Old Ford Pinto......New Ford Focus...

Sorry, I can't help but wonder what it takes to keep the hydrogen in liquid form and the potential for tank rupture under impact.

[powderhorn]

I say we make these at home and don't tell anyone about it until at least 35% of drivers are driving them. By then it'll be too late. -I know, I'm dreaming.

I think Ford did something very similar to get around the powerful blacksmith lobby. The horseless carrage just kind of snuk up on them before they realized what was happening.

[RLK]

Of course producing pressurized hudrogen to run these clunkers requires no cost or pollution.

[RLK]

You are correct. Cold fusion should be investigated, too. In the UK in the 6/2/02 Times there was an article confirming the original findings.

---------------------------

Cold fusion has been replicated probably hundreds of times in as many laboratories by now.

[Diogenesis]

Very true. The UK article reviewed the US Navy work on this.

The June 2/ 02 review in the UK Times SHOULD have been available in the USA, but it was not.

One might think that the US Navy work results would be reported in the US journals and periodicals,
but it was not.

OTOH, it is available for FReepers at:

US Navy report

[dennisw]

Cold fusion has been replicated probably hundreds of times in as many laboratories by now. 

How much equipment does it take to generate a few milliwatts of electric via cold fusion? This might be a fatal flaw. Same as it would cost trillions and trillions to make enough photo-voltaic cells and wind mills (turbines) to account for 10% of US electricity.

The beauty of natural gas and petroleum products is the equipment to utilize them is relatively cheap. Auto engines and turbines in electric power plants are relatively cheap.

[Tulsa Brian]

Rather related link: http://www.moller.com

[edwin hubble]

Hydrogen in elemental form is simply a storage medium...made by some vast energy source at a central location.

So, unless you use the current ultimate source of fuel cell hydrogen, petroleum,

We are still after that energy source.

[CaliGirlGodHelpMe]

"We should be working on fuel cells as a matter of defence priority."

Exactly! The peace and security of the middle east, to say nothing of our own, depends on the speedy vaporising of their fabulous oil wealth. You notice that they have not wasted any of it developing cures for diseases, nor estabishing world class universities, nor encouraging the arts. No, no, it's much more important for them to indulge the wildest fancies of their sheiks, and to finance terrorist organizations.

I know, I know, I'm ranting. But this is a subject close to my heart. Think how wonderful it will be - fresh, clean air to breathe, no ugly gas stations on every corner, and NO dependence on terrorists for our energy. Heaven!!

[Wonder Warthog]

"My guess is when you burn coal to run hydrogen-powered autos you are utilizing 20% of the energy captured in coal. One way or another you will waste the other 80%."

Wrong. Gasification of the coal, separation of hydrogen and carbon monoxide. Use the hydrogen in fuel cells, burn the carbon monoxide in combined cycle gas turbines. Cycle efficiency is far higher than 20%.

[OXENinFLA]

You may find this intersting. Subjet Water engine.

http://click.alltheweb.com/go2/2/atw/1c2B9DB349/MixILHdlYg/http/keelynet.com/energy/microeng.htm

[Sam Cree]

bump

[Puddleglum]

They day I can flip off the arabs and their oil, is the day the world will be just a little better. Can't wait.

I agree. I hate being beholden to these overseas oil countries that are, at best, indifferent to us. I wish we would have more fuel efficient cars and houses and then learn to live off our own domestic energy resources. When I see a 90 pound person driving to work all by him or herself in an SUV the size of a Sherman tank, I just think there's room for some energy conservation and energy independence to be had. Houses could be made more efficient, too, and I'd be willing to do it if it made the US more energy independent.

[js1138]

We should be working on fuel cells as a matter of defence priority. I don't really care about the Green arguments

I've been saying this for a while. We are now at war and will be for decades. We are not likely to convert overnight, but we could convert over 20 years.

[js1138]

They'll block any real transition until they find a way to capture the profits from the new industry.

And why wouldn't they profit. Who else has the capital, the engineers, the distribution network? Why dis they start calling themselves energy companies some years back?

[dennisw]

You are absolutely right. Only problem is there are coal burning plants (making electricity) in the UK and no gasification plants making hydrogen for automobile fuel cells. 
For the future you are correct!

[PDF]Coal - Bridge to the Hydrogen Economy
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... If cheap regenerative fuel cells & hydrogen generators can really be developed, the
"Holy Grail" hydrogen economy is quite interesting Expect coal gasification ...
www.engr.pitt.edu/pcc/2001plenary/ SimbeckCoaltoH2revised.pdf - Similar pages