Bush Intervenes in Port Lockout

Associated Press via Yahoo ^ | October 7, 2002 | SCOTT LINDLAW, Associated Press Writer

[Paulus Invictus]

Your arguments are not credible. Do you have any idea how many businesses are now hurting big time because their products are not arriving? They numnber in the thousands. According to the most recent news, the State of Hawaii is in a crisis situation right now and many western companies, including some big ones, are in deep tapioca.

[discostu]

Thanks I forgot there were computers involved.

See Eye, these guys are arguably costing YOU a job. By deliberatly slowing the expansion of technology into new areas they're preventing the re-expansion/recovery of the tech industry, which is keeping unemployed programmers (like you) unemployed. More use of tech = more tech jobs. Less use of tech = less tech jobs. They are directly and negatively impacting our industry.

[UnBlinkingEye]

These guys are costing us $2billion A DAY by shutting down the ports. And that number is expected to accelerate if the shutdown last more than a couple of weeks as various manufacturing industries SHUT DOWN because there's no where for their product to go.

Do the math again, regarding the 10,500 times say $125,000 average per worker, I get less than 1.4 billion a year. Why are the owners of the shipping yards crippling the economy when they could satisfy the unions with less than one days' loss to pay all of the workers for the entire year?

[discostu]

The onwers AREN'T. It's the union that started this as a work slowdown (so they could claim the high ground by not quite striking) because they don't want the new tracking systems (which could arguably cost a handful of jobs, maybe, though not actually longshoreman jobs). You've gotta get over this unreasoning hatred of everybody in charge of a business, they aren't all out to get you... can't necessarily say that about the unions though.

[UnBlinkingEye]

DON'T YOU READ? I'M AGAINST THAT POWER! IT'S WRONG! It's killing the sports you mention.

Time for regression testing. Major league sports are thriving.

[mathluv]

They did a 'work slow-down'. This is about not wanting to lose jobs to hi-tech - using barcodes to move freight better and quicker - lower prices for everyone!

[UnBlinkingEye]

You've gotta get over this unreasoning hatred of everybody in charge of a business, they aren't all out to get you... can't necessarily say that about the unions though.

I don't hate everyone in charge of a business and unions aren't all bad.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Well said.

I hope for the sake of our economy this ends, and soon. Perhaps this is all a HUGE plan by the "DemocRATS" to plunge the economy into chaos right before the election. I honestly believe there is more to this than is being told.

Why now? Elections are in November which isn't a "co-incidence" in my humble opinion. The Dems are so desperate, and we've watched that desperation playing out for quite some time now in all the rhetoric coming from Dashcle and company. This is just MORE of it. (Besides the very well put points you made too of course) Just some more food for thought.

FRegards!!

[discostu]

Sorry charley, the NFL is the only one that's thriving. All the others are seeing massive revenue, attendance, and rating and drops (I'm a sports junky I stay tied to these things, this year the MLB saw head-to-head late season games between teams competing for the penant no sell out, make or break the season games with thousands of empty seats). Coincidentally the NFL has the least powerful of the 4 unions (and yet average salary is just over a million, no starving athletes in the NFL. Hmm maybe it's not a coincidence that the sport with the weakest union, and the least recent labor dispute, who recently renewed they're CBA a full 18 months before it expired, is the only one pulling in more revenue every year. Then of course we go past the so called "major sports" and look at entirely non-unionized sports: tennis - revenues are up, golf - up, NASCAR - WAY up, CART and Indy are down but that's because they're splitting one market into two with constant infighting (almost like they had a union).

Unions are bad for business, there's no other way to look at it without ignoring the plainly visible evidence.

[discostu]

The only unions I'm willing to consider as POSSIBLY not bad are the ones for the cops, firemen and other "people that keep people alive". IMHO none of the people working in those professions can possibly be paid enough. That being said, blue flu still makes me sick, striking is wrong and the more important your job is the more wrong striking is.

[UnBlinkingEye]

In my experience QA is the first group to go. I forgive your anti-union stance and expect you would be most protected by joining a union.

Best Regards.

[blueriver]

I'm an unemployed high tech worker, and I'd take one of those jobs for less than they make and be thrilled with it, and in a year I'd be thier boss because I actually show up to work, not for work.

These people are fighting to keep the high tech work from being done off shore. This info not being reported. The heart of the dispute is who controls the new port jobs that come with installing centralized new logistics systems at terminals to improve operations. That includes software to manipulate shipping data from around the world, optical technology to scan containers, global position satellites to track containers and software to dispatch cranes.. See http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4201368.htm. These people are tryng to protect high tech jobs!

[UnBlinkingEye]

You haven't passed the exam, were or are you a union member?

Do you or did you have tenure?

[Vigilanteman]

You mean have Big Government step in and interfere with the free market exchange?

What planet are you from? If the free market was really operating here, these longshorejerks would be earning about $35K per year . . . or the port operators would start hiring replacement workers.

[blueriver]

What planet are you from? If the free market was really operating here, these longshorejerks would be earning about $35K per year . . . or the port operators would start hiring replacement workers.

Why $35K per year? I am sure many foreigners would be willing to work for $10,000 a year if you just give them a ticket and a visa to live in America.

[LibKill]

One of the things the Union complained about and walked out of the last round of talks over, was that the management negotiators had armed guards. They probably needed armed guards, but I have an answer to this complaint.

The President could assign armed U.S. Marshals (if there aren't enough regulars some temporarys could be appointed) to BOTH sides. Said Marshals to escort both sides in, and out of the meetings. No private armed guards allowed.

Let us see if the union KKKommunist pawns of the KKKommucratic Party can object to that!

[RobbyS]

Blame Bob Taft, that archliberal!

[cookcounty]

". The number of posters rushing to criticize the union members for "striking" when they are in fact "locked out" amazes me. Don't people even read the articles that are posted?" "I fail to see how Bush ordering a return to work could "energize" the union base when he is going against management by ordering longshoremen back to work."

Since there is no contract, management should announce that they're reducing pay by 20% and open the gates. If nobody shows up, they should hire those that want to work. Maybe they'll find guys smart enough to understand barcodes.

I'll bet dockworkers in Vancouver BC and in Mexico are pocketing a lot of OT!

[montanus]

BTW: I am a programmer and I would much rather sit on my ass in an air conditions office pounding out code for 80K a year then crawling around 25 above the hold of a cargo container on a crane for a 100K a year.

Amen to that. I'm a networking guy. When is the last time a router fell on some nerd and killed him? My dad worked in construction and every so often people (or groups of people) would DIE on the job. The risk factor most certainly should play a role in that pay, as should phyiscal exertion and discomfort. Real easy for a guy sitting in an office to call guys digging a ditch in the 100 degree heat lazy.

[Future Useless Eater]

I'll bet dockworkers in Vancouver BC and in Mexico are pocketing a lot of OT!

speaking of Mexico, Why, as soon as NAFTA passed, why didn't Mexico build the largest shipyards in the world?

There would be no need for USA west coast longshoremen!
The average salary there would be about $10,000 per year and much of those savings would pass on to our US consumers.
Even Mexican truckers would get some of the pie as they would likely be allowed to deliver goods at least to the southwest USA, and that would further reduce the cost of goods in the stores.