GERMAN ELECTION (Running Thread): Schroeder by a Nosehair

Die Welt- translated ^ | 9/22/02 | Die Welt

[RobFromGa]

Election turnout probably smaller than 1998

Large opinion

Berlin/Rostock (dpa) - with the election to the Bundestag a smaller participation than before drew four years starting from 1998 lay it Germany far with 82,2 per cent in the late Sunday afternoon. However the returning officers reported high letter voter at the same time of a ratio. Everywhere the letter voters were not already taken in account. Thus a factor of uncertainty remained existing.

As one inquires around approximately three hours before locking of the polling stations resulted in, to against 15.00 o'clock in most Lands of the Federal Republic a clearly lower election turnout was registered. In Saxonia-Anhalt the participation lay at this time approximately 15 points under the values of the yearly 1998, in other Lands of the Federal Republic up to eight points. Also in the capital went to Berlin with herbstlich to cool weather clearly less voter to the urns.

On the other hand there was the tendency in few other Lands of the Federal Republic also to an easily higher election turnout - in such a way in Schleswig-Holstein and in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, where at the same time a new federal state parliament was selected.

In Saxonia the returning officers spoke first of a surprisingly large resonance, then the interest decreased/went back however clearly. Also in Bavaria the choice encountered in the first hours in some cities a substantially larger interest than 1998. There the participation up to 12 per cent points in the comparison rose to the same time before four years. Against noon this tendency decreased/went back likewise, of a clear minus was later spoken. It was similar in North Rhine-Westphalia and Hamburg.

From other Lands of the Federal Republic a rather weak resonance was determined. In Hessen, Thuringia, Saarland and Bremen the values decreased/went back. Also in Rhineland-Palatinate, Brandenburg and Lower Saxony the crush was smaller than 1998. In Baden-Wuerttemberg it meant: Election turnout constantly.

The polling stations for the election to the Bundestag had opened o'clock punctually at 08.00. 61,2 million Federal citizen were called to select a new parliament. With the election of the federal parliament in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania were entitled to vote about 1.4 million citizen.

After last inquiries and prognoses to the exit the SPD with Federal Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder was appropriate for the election to the Bundestag scarcely before the union with her candidate for the chancellorship Edmund Stoiber (CSU). Since also the smaller parties FDP and the Green were strongly estimated approximately in each case equal, the continuation of the red-green coalition was considered as uncertain. For a government majority in the parliament it could be crucial whether the Party of Democratic Socialism draws again into the Bundestag or not.

The Social Democrats set to come into the proximity of their result from 1998 to. At that time they reached 40.9 per cent of the secondary voices. CDU/CSU had slipped before four years to 35,1 per cent, their secondaryworst result with elections to the Bundestag. The Greens reached 6.7 per cent, the FDP came on 6,2 per cent. The Party of Democratic Socialism overcame the five-per cent hurdle with 5,1 per cent scarcely.

After last inquiries in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania a confirmation of the red-red coalition of SPD and Party of Democratic Socialism under head of the government Harald Ringstorff (SPD) applied as extremely probable. 1998 had the SPD 34.3, which reaches Party of Democratic Socialism 24.4 and the CDU 30.2 per cent.

[x]

Yes, I know. I just wonder why the Social Democrats are marked socalist but the [Christian] Social Union not.

Because German history is so very different from ours. The Social Democrats are the direct descendents of the original Socialist Party of Germany. The Christian Social Union was an anti-Communist, anti-Socialist Catholic party formed in Bavaria. It's the successor of the Catholic Center and Bavarian People's parties and the sister party of the Christian Democratic Union, which exists in the rest of Germany.

Individualism was never as positive an idea in continental Europe as it is the US. Social solidarity was usually rated as more important, save in small circles of intellectuals and capitalists.

Christian Democracy was not as hospitable to wide-open free markets as the Republicans -- or for many years the Democrats -- here were. In theory it intended to protect citizens against the workings of markets almost as much as against socialism or state oppression.

[PoisedWoman]

Germany's SPD/Greens Back Ahead in TV Estimate
Sun Sep 22, 2:39 PM ET

BERLIN (Reuters) - A projection for ARD television Sunday indicated that German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's coalition of Social Democrats and Greens were headed for a tiny majority in parliament over a conservative-liberal alliance.

The latest projection, based on early counts from Sunday's general election, gave Schroeder's center-left SPD 38.1 percent and the environmentalist Greens 8.6 percent, to 38.8 percent for Edmund Stoiber's conservatives and 7.3 percent for their traditional partners, the liberal Free Democrats.

ARD said its calculations indicated this would giving the current SPD/Greens coalition a one-seat parliamentary majority.

ARD's previous projection had put the conservative-liberal alliance in a slim lead.

However, separate projections for ZDF television showed the two possible coalitions level in terms of seats in parliament.

A provisional official result will not be known until after midnight local time (2200 GMT), although German television was broadcasting progressively more accurate projections.

[Torie]

I can't believe that the Greens of FDP won more seats outright than their share to generate more seats. And the CDU and SPD eached picked up another seat without the percentages changing. Clearly I don't understand the system yet.

[VaBthang4]

No problem...the world is already doing that....yet somehow...I dont lose any sleep over it.

Go figure.

[RobFromGa]

Wow this is complicated, I'm leaving it to the pros. Just tell me when you think it is OVER for sure. We need to change the title of the thread then.

[eabinga]

So, Stoiber lost? Do I read you correctly?

He is losing right now, yes. It may change, it is very close. But don't get your hopes up.

[marajade]

"Clearly I don't understand the system yet."

But its a clever system.... Okie dokie...

[Torie]

Ya, but it is hard to believe that any party had more directly elected than their percentage share given that two parties didn't make the cut, unless it is the percentage of only those parties that make the cut.

[eabinga]

But the PDS didn't get 3 seats OR 5% minimum to be included as part of Parliament. What is the meaning of this "rule"?

The 2 PDS seats remain, you can't deny a direct representative his/her seat.

If a party has at least 5% OR 3 direct seats, he wins seats in proportion to the votes received. This is to prevent small parties from splittering up parliament, which helped Hitler came to power.

[eabinga]

Ya, but it is hard to believe that any party had more directly elected than their percentage share given that two parties didn't make the cut, unless it is the percentage of only those parties that make the cut

I believe Stoiber and Schröder each are getting 3 overhang mandates.

[RobFromGa]

Hold on a minute, I think I found three more seats...

[PoisedWoman]

thanks for the map. It explains everything at a glance. The commies are voting for commies. Period.

[Torie]

There must be a lot more seats than are on your map then.

[eabinga]

There must be a lot more seats than are on your map then.

299 districts for 598 seats

[Torie]

So there are 2 seats in each district? How does that work?

[marajade]

I'm sorry but my original post about how its goofy still stands...

[Dog]

So Stroiber is losing this by 1 seat???....unreal.

[marajade]

You know I really don't get how it all works...

Your first vote is for direct representation and your second vote is for a list of candidates provided by the party and they don't have to be the same...

So I guess comparing it to us you could vote for a Democrat at the local level but decide that party you want to win is Republican...

I just don't get it at all...

[eabinga]

So there are 2 seats in each district? How does that work?

No, there is one seat per district.

But there are the same amount of seats allocated for indirect votes.

Each German get 2 votes. With his first vote, he votes for a candidate in his district. The one with the most votes wins and gets a seat.

With his second vote, he votes for a party. The party has a list with candidates on it. Lets say one party gets 10% of the votes, that means that party gets 10% of the remaining 299 seats. (about 29 seats, there are rules on how decimals are handled), so the first 29 candidates on the party's list get a seat also.

[Dog]

With his second vote, he votes for a party. The party has a list with candidates on it. Lets say one party gets 10% of the votes, that means that party gets 10% of the remaining 299 seats. (about 29 seats, there are rules on how decimals are handled), so the first 29 candidates on the party's list get a seat also.

Mind blowing stuff!